The MBoard

This topic is for things like rocket science, language discussion C++, high-level discussion and science things. Found a new subject of particular interest to you? Want to show off something? Want to debate about something? Here you go.

It can also be for questions that come up relevant to these kinds of topics. Need help with Roman numerals? Do you have a grammar-relevant question? Need some factoids to impress your friends? Here you go: the topic to ask/recieve in!


I'm curious, first of all, if anyone has any information about a fractal-building programme that came out a few years ago (Windows 95/98 era) which taught about Mandelbrot, Koch and all such fractals and had an image-making programme that had "ftactal trees" and "fractal leaves" and such. I used to love it, and I haven't seen or heard of it for years.

Also, has anyone played that evolution game where you start out as an amoeba/protozoa or whatever, and you can customise how your creature evolves and whatnot, or heard anything about it? I've been hoping it would be coming out for general public use, but again, haven't heard about it since that one Google video.

The video game that you're talking about is Spore, Will Wright's latest thing. It isn't out in stores yet (no demo released either); it isn't due out until either the end of this year or the start of 2009.

Edit: According to Yubi, it is getting a September release.

For your fractal program, take a look at this list: http://home.att.net/~Paul.N.Lee/Fractal_Software.html (http://home.att.net/~Paul.N.Lee/Fractal_Software.html)

Could be any of those (but it isn't Apophysis, which I used to create my new desktop... what I might share).

Anyway, I'm a computer scientist, so if anyone wants to talk about programming, complexity, computing theory, etc., I'm your guy. Or one of them.
Rather I want to be the guy.
although it tried that and it's really hard to do

Anyone else here love C?
Not C++, what a horrible language.
C.
Lovely lovely C.

C is nice and all, but Java has to be my favorite thing to program in.

Multimedia fusion! Oh, wait, this is a thread for intellectual programmers, not amateurs... >_>

I would love a religious debate, but I think it's against forum rules... and it's impossible to debate on religion's side anyway. (and all religious debates on the internet inevitably turn to "Raptor Jesus saves when he shops at Walmart")

Actually, I'm in a Perl/ColdFusion class at the moment. Scripting languages are fun, so if you want to talk about that, all the better.

It's too bad about the whole religion thing... but then I have other places to debate that.

C is nice and all, but Java has to be my favorite thing to program in.

Java is my favorite Object-Oriented language. It's nice, smooth, and gets the job done.
The reason I like C so much is because it's compiled into machine code (Java runs at least 10x slower than C due to the fact that it's interpreted as bytecode), and it's just so close to the machine you're using.
Lots of cheap little tricks, although the overall complexity rises.

However, if I want to do something straight-forward or with a GUI, I use Java.

I like to program in Ruby.

"Ruby? What the heck?" "What's Ruby?" "Pfft, Ruby." "Pokemon Ruby was ok." [/one of mikero's post]

I'm probably going to learn C++ when I'm in college. It's pretty manditory last I checked for vidja gaems.

Not quite completely, but mostly. It won't matter since I know C++ anyway.

Ruby is very nice, though. It's simple, clean, clear, and great for beginners.
Slow.
But very easy to write.

This is such a broad thread. The whole board is for discussion. I think each topic should have it's own thread or this is just going to get messy and ridiculous. It throws the structure of a forum out the window by pooling everything into one long crazy thread.

"Ruby? What the heck?" "What's Ruby?" "Pfft, Ruby." "Pokemon Ruby was ok." [/one of mikero's post]

Uhm no, I don't think so. How about we leave being me to me, thanks.

Multimedia fusion! Oh, wait, this is a thread for intellectual programmers, not amateurs... >_>

I would love a religious debate, but I think it's against forum rules... and it's impossible to debate on religion's side anyway. (and all religious debates on the internet inevitably turn to "Raptor Jesus saves when he shops at Walmart")

If your up for a debate, I'd be more than happy to argue with you over AIM.

Even if it isn't against the rules, a religious debate on a board attracts alot of negitive ju-ju and gets alot of people angry.

There have been several simi-popular boards crash due to lames and hackings resulting from one "relious beleif thread."

I've seen it work, and very well at that, but this is more of a broad-topic board, and more toes are likely to get stepped on.

If people actually used a religious discussion board for its proper use (i.e. supporting statements, asking questions, not bashing), then it could work out well. I won't push the issue, though, as a religious board doesn't really fit the aspects of the board anyway.

So, does discussing bread in The Bread Thread count as an intellectual topic?

Discussing discussing the bread in the bread thread is certainly an intellectual endeavor, so have at it and what ho, young man!

I love Java, especially when you use eclipse to write the code. That program just spoils you. I'm also a fan (kind of) of assembly. I may study it in detail later because I could go into the aviation field. Ada would be a good fit for such field, too.
Currently I'm taking Computer Organization, E-Learning, Software Engineering(2) and Operating System courses, I hope I enjoy it.

Eclipse is like the best environment ever.
Although it has its fair share of problems.

What architecture do you want to learn assembly for? x86 is most useful.

AND LAST.
Ada is being used much less these days, but it's handy to know how to read and write it, I guess.
Lots of legacy Ada programs in the military.

Your schedule is a little like mine was last semester, Voully.

But currently:
Internet Programming (easy, Perl/CF), Computer Networks (difficult, C/Java, network protocols, etc), Analysis of Algorithms (boring, but easy), Math/Stats (math boring) and a Game Programming elective.

And then I'm done, and I get my shiny degree.
Then I go attempt to work for Valve.

If people actually used a religious discussion board for its proper use (i.e. supporting statements, asking questions, not bashing), then it could work out well. I won't push the issue, though, as a religious board doesn't really fit the aspects of the board anyway.

Screw that. It might start out nice, but such a thing would only get worse as it dragged on due to stupid fanboys.

I've had enough religious debates to know that they rarely go anywhere or help anything. I prefer to keep my ##### solemn and dignified.

I've experienced a well-working religious topic board first-hand.

You need a certain level of common maturity for it, though.

So have I, but it was pretty much pointless.

Nevermind that religious discussion is clearly against the rules here; and for good reason.

I don't care what you believe, and you shouldn't care what I believe.

That's what you believe huh? Interesting.

I don't care what you believe, and you shouldn't care what I believe.

For real.

(http://www.woodka.com/wp-content/stuff/bbrot4x3.jpg)

Fractals.

They're a highlight of my existence.

Mandelbrot sets are my favourite.

Take a point called Z
On the complex plane
Make z1 be z²+C
And z2 is z1²+C
And z3 is z2²+C
And so on
If the series of Zs should always stay
Close to Z and never trend away
That point is in the Mandelbrot Set


_{Though, I actually find Sierpinski Gaskets to be pretty awesome, too.}

I don't care what you believe, and you shouldn't care what I believe.

Agreed.

Eclipse is like the best environment ever.
Although it has its fair share of problems.

What architecture do you want to learn assembly for? x86 is most useful.

AND LAST.
Ada is being used much less these days, but it's handy to know how to read and write it, I guess.
Lots of legacy Ada programs in the military.

Your schedule is a little like mine was last semester, Voully.

But currently:
Internet Programming (easy, Perl/CF), Computer Networks (difficult, C/Java, network protocols, etc), Analysis of Algorithms (boring, but easy), Math/Stats (math boring) and a Game Programming elective.

And then I'm done, and I get my shiny degree.
Then I go attempt to work for Valve.

Yup, x86, that's the one.
As for the courses, I have finished all Math courses, as well as the Algorithms.
I still have three Electric Engineering courses, Engineering Economy, Thermodynamics(yikes!) and the rest of the Computer Engineering courses (my major).
I'm also going to enroll in a CISCO Network course this semester.
I still have a year and a half left, ugh.

Ah, Voulnet likes it more physical, that he does.
Good luck with the Engineering stuff!

Although about the algorithms class, I'm not sure why you'd need to understand complexity theory. Then again it might be a class that teaches you algorithms, I have no idea.

Thanks, I need all the luck I can get.
The complexity theory becomes useful when you need to develop flexible, efficient or 'light' software.
The idea is to be able to tell which algorithm is easier for the computer to run.
Is this the complexity theory you're talking about?

I know all of that crap.

I just don't understand why a computer engineer needs to know it.
(but then I think you guys use your magical powers to fuse circuits and make logic gates in the heavens)

Computer Engineering isn't just about circuits and logic gates, honey.
We do more than enough programming, so we DO need to know how to do it efficiently.

Eh, I guess it's all pretty close together at the Bachelor level anyway.

I was expecting different majors to have more...
... you know, differences.

You'd think all this engineering and programming and math talk would make me think "Oh man, I'm so glad I'm in animation 'cause it's just drawing not all this hard #####!"

But no. Noooooooo no. That couldn't be further from the truth. Nope.

The man speaks the truth.
I was an art major for a year.

Then I quit because I wanted to do something easier, so I chose computer science.

My program has the heaviest work load of my entire college, apparently.

And they still make us do gen eds (which effectively dicked me over for the weekend and my animation).

Eh, I guess it's all pretty close together at the Bachelor level anyway.

I was expecting different majors to have more...
... you know, differences.

They are different, but they still need the basics. Programming efficiently is definitely a basic skill.
By the way, Chron. How many years do you have left till graduation? Is it a 5 year degree?

This thread hurts my brain...

: Chron  18 February 2008, 21:28:42

Eh, I guess it's all pretty close together at the Bachelor level anyway.

I was expecting different majors to have more...
... you know, differences.

They are different, but they still need the basics. Programming efficiently is definitely a basic skill.
By the way, Chron. How many years do you have left till graduation? Is it a 5 year degree?

No such thing as a five year degree here, to my knowledge.

I have 0.25 years left, which is to say I graduate this semester. Around May.
AoA does nothing to teach you how to program efficiently. That's basic level stuff.

It is more about knowing how to check your own algorithms for speed and correctness (to see if it's really better than something else).

Really... what sort of job do you want?
I think I'm more confused about the end result of your degree than anything else.

It's not confusing, really. Computer Engineering is a very broad profession, I'll work as a Computer Engineer but what I will do depends on where I work.

Yes, but there has to be some difference between the pool of available jobs for our majors.

That's what I'm getting at.
I mean, you obviously have engineering skills I lack.

I have some theory skills you lack.

but where do these things factor in

I feel I should go back to college for Computer Science.  There aren't any jobs out now for CIS.

Brush up on your math and such, and you'll be fine.

With a degree in CIS you probably just lack a few courses to pick up CS anyway.

Computer Engineering isn't just about circuits and logic gates, honey.
We do more than enough programming, so we DO need to know how to do it efficiently.

Computer engineers from Kuwait DO IT with efficiency!

We do our women efficiently. Nothing is lost or unused.

We do our women efficiently. Nothing is lost or unused.

Scientifically, that's impossible unless you produce one single sperm.

It's not lost, we know EXACTLY where it is.

He said, "... Or unused."

They're remote-controlled. They're just not used... yet.

An egg only attaches to one sperm. A sperm is a tool for fertilizing an egg. If fertilization does not occur, it is unused.

But the sheer number serves a function in and of itself, so even if only one succeeds, they all serve to increase probability.

Hehe, he's got you there!

Also, every sperm cell comes with an individual remote control button that we can use to detonate the cell, resulting in a massive explosion.

Efforts were made to make one great big cell back in the eighties.


All results proved... Painful.

the alternative is better

But the sheer number serves a function in and of itself, so even if only one succeeds, they all serve to increase probability.

But every sperm is still not used.

Every sperm is used to increase probability.

Only the ones that actually reach the area where the egg is count as successful in that purpose/.

Therefore, some sperm are not used.

The sperm that miss serve the purpose of attempting to increase probability.

The purpose of sperm is to fertilize.

Fertilize.

Sheer numbers are a survival thing, not a purpose thing. A sperm is not created solely for the purpose of moving the other sperm.

*cough* Rich in protein *cough* cure world hunger *cough*

The purpose of sperm is to fertilize.

Fertilize.

Sheer numbers are a survival thing, not a purpose thing. A sperm is not created solely for the purpose of moving the other sperm.

Am I to understand then that a 'survival thing' is not a purpose? The end goal is fertilization, yes, but the numbers are there to facilitate that goal. Increased probability is a function, regardless of what you think.

Survival traits don't serve as purposes. They serve as functions.

In relevant news: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9002085385040727366

Let's call survival traits "secondary purposes."

Survival traits don't serve as purposes. They serve as functions.

...

Function: The kind of action or activity proper to a person, thing, or institution; the purpose for which something is designed or exists; role.

So... a function is a purpose.

So... the number of sperm, which you claim to be a survival trait and therefore a function, is...

WAH NA NA!

A purpose!

OMG!

Also, I'm talking realistically.

Ideally, all the sperm work together, blah, blah.

Realistically, some of them get stuck places that make them completely useless (i.e. in the tube, never even making an exit).

I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

Yes, not all sperm make it to the goal line, but the whole reason for having such a large team is so that at least one of them scores.

My sole point is that not every one of them is actually useful. Yes, the vast majority of the mass is, but there are individuals which are not, thereby making it so that something is unused.

That's all.

The increased probability caused by their presence suggests otherwise.

Try talking to a man with a low sperm count sometime, and see if the thinks numbers matter when it comes to overall purpose.

lol mountain dew

Alright, I'll admit defeat.

Let's have a topic change, shall we?



Also, caffeine doesn't always lower sperm count. *cough*

Jake isn't real.

Prove me wrong.

I love when people ask philosophical questions that have no real answers.

I love when people ask philosophical questions that have no real answers.

What was your face before your parents were born?

I didn't have one.

Duh.

Chicken or egg, tree falls in a forest, etc.?

They annoy me, particularly when someone actually thinks they're being clever by asking it.

Exactly.

Recreational pretension is the sport of NOW!

Alex, those permatozoons that don't make it to the egg don't just increase probability, but also add taste. Ask anyone who...
That's why everyone of them is used!

I had a crazy thought the other day that I have been arguing with my friend Ben about.

If you bounce a ball, it's going to do whatever ( bounce a couple times, roll ). If you were to drop that same ball in the exact same situation, it would bounce and roll in the exact same way. There is no argument about that.

The argument comes when you apply that to humanity. Since the brain is simply a series of chemical reactions, if I were to re-live my life with all of the outside variables replicated exactly the same, would I relive my life exactly the same?

I say that this proves that we don't have free will, our minds are just so complex that we think we do.


My friend says that all that this proves is that "If everything was exactly the same then everything would be exactly the same". What do YOU think?

(PS, I hope this is on topic)

Very much, and there is a great chance that it would be different.
Think of all the very chance-y things that you remember, a possible mistake in the brain to do something that is completely random, and in the same situation would only replicate those results 1/100 times.
Eventually, there would be a slight difference if the brain happened to view one thing just slightly different.

I'll say that the fact that some things in the human brain happen randomly, and cannot be controlled.

Also-

*cough* Rich in protein *cough* cure female hunger *cough*

Fantastic question, though sadly it's rhetorical.

While logical deduction would suggest that what you propose is true, the sheer number of variables makes testing your conclusion impossible.

Frankly, I don't necessarily believe that any of us have free will, but I'm also okay with that fact.

Also-

: Winged Warrior  21 February 2008, 05:18:05

*cough* Rich in protein *cough* cure female hunger *cough*

Not always.

I like free will. Good movie.

If you bounce a ball, it's going to do whatever ( bounce a couple times, roll ). If you were to drop that same ball in the exact same situation, it would bounce and roll in the exact same way. There is no argument about that.

Incorrect. Chaos theory suggests, and this is experimentally verifiable, that the ball will bounce differently every time it is dropped, in some slight manner, because there are so many other factors influencing the bounce of the ball.

The ball has, for instance, been translated several million light-years (imperceptibly due to Earth's gravity field) across space. It is highly unlikely to be in the same position twice relative to a fixed point in the universe (although here you might be able to make an argument that we could fix a point relative to the Earth's speed, but even then the Earth doesn't travel quite uniformly due to being bent from speed).

Also, any time the ball hits, it may pick up some ground particles and/or lose some of its own in the collision.

Imperfections on the surface which the ball hits may change from bounce to bounce, and even the surface itself may translate imperceptibly from bounce to bounce.

Factor in air currents and the accuracy of the device used to drop the ball.

With all of this, I can quite conclusively debunk your theory.

Unless by "exact" you mean the state of the entire universe (space and time) is the same each time.
That's only possible with time travel, though.

---

On to free will.
The universe itself moves through states almost as a finite state machine.
However it is seemingly infinite in nature, making it an infinite-state machine.

The progression of these states is brought about by the interactions of components of each state. This is usually seen as the flow of time and movement of energy.

There are two things to note, however:
There is a substance, and energy, a constant distributed throughout the universe at all times in varying quantities. There is an extent, which is called space.
There is an entirely separate value called time, which is not a collection of states, but rather a component of each state.

Now, if we look at the universe from this angle, everything that happens really is predetermined, down to the very last string (or whatever the quantum is). There is no ability for humans to have free will, then; it is impossible.

However, this supposes that consciousness is a very non-complex thing.
I'm sure we may all agree that it is certainly not.

However, consciousness is something that exists in many animals, for it is a primary method of living organisms to not die. Since these organisms are a subset of the components of the universal states, the universe itself must have some underlying support or mirroring of that consciousness (fractals are seen day in and day out in life and the universe, so perhaps this is fractal in nature?).

Factor in that you and I are self-conscious, a property called sentience.
By the same logic above, the universe must have some superset of its "self" regarding sentience.

In fact, we are all probably part of that universal self-consciousness, each part being a window for the whole.

If then, the universe has some manner of seeing its own state...
... and all properties of organisms that are part of it are also properties the universe has...

... it is NOT illogical to say the free will exists.
In fact, it is natural.

This thread is major headache to try and catch up on after a couple days.

Which is why I'm sticking to comic relief.

You're all making this too complicated, it's just this simple: You have free will, but  because of many circumstances; you won't be able to do many of the things you wish to do. Now, you had free will, which is the DESIRE to do something. Whether you did it or not is another matter, especially if something out of your control stood in the way.
You have the freedom to chose whether you want to sleep or not, that is wanting, but sometimes you just can't sleep.
Just because something stopped you from doing an action, doesn't mean you never had the free will to choose/ do it.

First of all you really have to define free will. I've been in this argument before, one where the other dude believed free will was simply a human's ability to make decisions and there was a misunderstanding resulting from that. Well, duh. We make decisions all of the time. If that's free will, then yes, we got it. However due to my life's experience, short as it has been, I question the idea of us having actual control over those decisions.

I'm not about to waste my time arguing the rest of that. I respect your opinion, though.

EDIT: fixed a sentence by adding a word.

New Topic: Does anyone know why some names appear in blue on the online user list while others are white?

There doesn't appear to be any apparent pattern.

... or I've been drinking, and it's slowed my cognitive abilities enough to miss the connection.

I believe it's because they've reached 1000 posts, because Mikero and ASR were, I believe, the first two people to get that colour in their names.

Yeah, I didn't even notice when I passed 1000 posts, but then I noticed my color, and slowly made the connection since somebody else had just asked Mike why his color had changed at the time.

So yes, it's 1,000 posts = blue name for some reason.

It signifies how hardcore you guys are.

Rock on.

*goes to bed*

It signifies how hardcore you guys are.

Euuuggnnnh.

If Mikey had a dollar for every post he made...

He'd spam the hell out of us?

Wouldn't you? That's easy money.

What if it was a one time past-tense offer. Light right now

Mikero
Posts: 2200

You'd only get $2,200.

Only?

Somebody around here sure is a spoiled, little princess.
...Not me.

How is that not a lot of money? That would take a big scoop out of my tuition fees.

What if it was a one time past-tense offer. Light right now

Mikero
Posts: 2200

You'd only get $2,200.

That's quite a sum of money.

Abe needs to start paying.

I'm a happy man if he does.

Abe pays plenty for MMM already.

Disclaimer: This is in no way meant to condone the downloading of copywritten music

I assume you've all noticed the increasing size of hard drives used in MP3 players. Now, how many of you have considered what statement this is making about music downloads?

Let's say you've got a 40GB iPod.
Now, lets say all your MP3s are encoded at 192kbps at an average song length of, let's say, 3:30. You're looking at a little less than 5MB per song.
If 1GB is 1,024MB, then you're looking at about 204 songs per GB.
Using these numbers 40GB of music translates into 8,192 songs, total.

Now, if these were all songs that you ripped from CD, you'd be talking about roughly 630 CDs (assuming an average of 13 tracks each).
At $15 per CD, you're looking at $9,452.31 total
--or--
If you downloaded each song for $0.99 from iTunes or wherever, you'd be looking at $8,110.08

Either way, the assumption is that you've paid over eight thousand dollars to fill an average sized MP3 player.

Do these companies honestly believe the average person spends that much money on music, or are they just turning a blind eye to where the songs come from?

I completely understand that (with the exception of Sony, who's MP3 players cap out at 8GB) the companies manufacturing the players exist as separate entities from record companies, and as such all they care about is moving units, not how those units are used...

But I think there's a pretty clear indication here of market trends, and (at least anecdotal) evidence of where people are getting their media.

Aren't most of the 40GB+ devices also wired for video too? That makes a big difference. My iPod Nano is 1GB. Sometimes it's not enough when I'm trying to add more music to it, but I don't really want to have ALL my songs on one mp3 player since it would take forever on shuffle mode to find something I want to listen to or something I recently added.

But yeah, I doubt they care at all where the mp3's are coming from.

Yeah, a lot of the larger MP3 players play video, but I don't know terribly many people that utilize that function.

I don't have a single video on my Zune.

I doubt I'd use video functions even if I could. I can kind of see myself putting TV shows on there to watch on the bus to class or something because my bus ride is an hour each way, but I don't know.

I just don't see why all these players seem to need weird formats of video.

My phone is great for everything except playing videos because everything needs re-encoded on PC beforehand.

Agreed. I miss the days of my drag-and-drop Archos.

I doubt I'd use video functions even if I could. I can kind of see myself putting TV shows on there to watch on the bus to class or something because my bus ride is an hour each way, but I don't know.

I used to pass boring lectures playing Sega Genesis Sonic games on my cell phone.
Speaking of which, are there ANY good N-Gage games? My cellphone runs N-Gage games and I'd love to download one if it's good.

When I first got my video iPod when it came out, I used the video features a lot. They filled up the 30GB iPod fast.
After a few months, though, I realized how worthless the videos were. They could only be used with iTunes, and I had already bought the first 5 episodes of Lost ($10) and a couple episodes of The Office.
Eventually I deleted them from my iPod because I never really watched them past the first few times, and I use it strictly for music now. I'm never going to fill up 30 gigs, I think I'm at just around 4 gigs right now anyway.

Interesting stuff, though, Edge. I truly doubt they care where the music comes from, but then you have people like Apple with iTunes being more protected than most banks.

You're all forgetting about Public Domain and things like that.

Not that I'm suggesting that it's even feasible that every person who has songs they didn't pay for got them legally or through PD, but there is a LOT of PD stuff out there.

Radiohead, for example, had their last album available for download on "name your price" policy, including absolutely free, until it was released in stores. Other artists, like Jonathan Coulton, have a sort of honour system with their songs: It'd be really, really nice if you donated, but if you're going to take them anyway, then that's fine, too.

There's a large amount of "underground" rumblings in the music industry due to what some consider to be too-restrictive copyright laws and too strict enforcement (i.e. the whole thing with companies taking fourteen-year-olds to court and whatnot to "prove a point" several years back).

I have a small, cheap .mp3 player that was on sale at FYE.

It's filled (mostly) with songs that I either have on CD, got through PD, or a friend sent to me because they know someone in the band.

That all having been said, I also agree that they don't really care where it comes from as long as their product is selling.

Not enough stuff is Public Domain to really consider it. I mean, I know that A LOT is and yeah "In Rainbows" by Radiohead came out and I know at least one "die-hard fan" who got it for free. Barenaked Ladies released an album on USB drive with just the mp3s on it, reasoning that since it's reuseable it's better for the environment and that they don't care if people share the music as that's the whole idea of music. The White Stripes also released "Icky Thump" on limited edition USBin Apple Lossless format.

Still, in the grand scheme there's still not really enough PD stuff to make a huge crater.

Unfortunately, underground and independent stuff doesn't currently hold enough weight to change the whole market.

Yeah, I know about the Radiohead thing, but I think it was kind of douchey that they released a retail CD with bonus tracks. ##### them, I'm not buying the album twice.

Trent Reznor (former 'victim' and member of OiNK) puts it well. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=IFXivarypE4)

Not enough stuff is Public Domain to really consider it. I mean, I know that A LOT is and yeah "In Rainbows" by Radiohead came out and I know at least one "die-hard fan" who got it for free. Barenaked Ladies released an album on USB drive with just the mp3s on it, reasoning that since it's reuseable it's better for the environment and that they don't care if people share the music as that's the whole idea of music. The White Stripes also released "Icky Thump" on limited edition USBin Apple Lossless format.

Still, in the grand scheme there's still not really enough PD stuff to make a huge crater.

Unfortunately, underground and independent stuff doesn't currently hold enough weight to change the whole market.

Wait, what's this about USB drive albums? That sounds pretty neat.

So, I'm guessing we're discussing how CDs being 18-20 bucks a pop is ridiculous, right?

In a weird, round about sort of way, yes.

That, and I don't think that were most people get their music anymore.

Personally, I usually get a my music through other means, since, usually, I'll only like a few songs off any given album anyway. If I REALLY want to support a band I like, I'll get the CD.

But very rarely will I do so.

Also, the fact that the Reservoir Dogs sound track is like 22 dollars is ridiculous. 

Any CD I've bought in the last 4 or 5 years was purchased at a show. At least that way I know all my money is going straight to the artist/s in question.

Actually, the exception to this would be 10,000 Days. I was just happy to have a new Tool CD.

I still buy CDs.

I haven't gone to many shows (that were my idea, anyway), but I do have one album that I bought at a show.

I mostly go to local record stores, like Everyday Music (Though I still don't like that they changed owners; Cellophane Square had much better selection beforehand), which have used CDs with a guarantee that if they don't work, they will take them back. They will also buy any album you're willing to sell as long as it has a cover, a case and the CD.


I got Rio there for $9, and Rings Around the World for $5, as well as a few others for less than average market price.


There are also a couple of bands that I know of which sell their albums in a considerably less expensive "just the music" format, as well as the regular way, with the "just the music" format having a cardboard sleeve with just the album liner and the CD inside, and the other format having extras, like a CD/DVD and things like that.


Also, considering that CDs have been around since ... I forget exactly which year, but before most of us were born, there are a lot of people who would have access to a lot of CDs without having to buy each one at full current-market value.


There are a lot of ways to legally get lots of music that don't involve spending a bajillion dollars. Being of limited means growing up (and even now), I learned how.




Also, I didn't even know that CDs had players that were mass-market available until I was eleven. Cassette tapes for the win?

The true purpose of extra capacity on my portable media players is for me to rip every CD I own at 320 kbps :D

V0 rips man. All the quality, half the space.

If you claimed you could audibly tell the difference between 320kbps and a V0 rip, you'd be lying.

This seemed like to best place to post this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_familial_insomnia
This disease, even though my family in all likelihood doesn't have it, frightens me to my core. It's even worse than when I start coming up with horrible tortures for stories and I end up scaring the pee out of my own self.

Direct wiki quote 'cos I'm lazy:

The age of onset is variable, ranging from 30 to 60, with an average of 50. Death usually occurs between 7 to 36 months from onset. The presentation of the disease varies considerably from person to person, even among patients from within the same family.

The disease has four stages, taking 7 to 18 months to run its course:

   1. The patient suffers increasing insomnia, resulting in panic attacks and phobias. This stage lasts about four months.
   2. Hallucinations and panic attacks become noticeable, continuing about five months.
   3. Complete inability to sleep is followed by rapid loss of weight. This lasts about three months.
   4. Dementia, turning unresponsive or mute over the course of six months. This is the final progression of the disease, and the patient will subsequently die.

In short, you do not sleep for the last nine months of your life, and spend most of it crazy and hallucinating.

Aughaughaugh. I can't think about this anymore. Did I mention there are brain-eating amoebas that thrive in waters during the summer months, and they enter your body when you go swimming and go OM NOM NOM?

I need to stop reading these things.

Oh thanks, now I'm not gonna go swimming ever again.

They don't appear in swimming pools, thank god.

At least, not unless your pool is the disgustingst filth pit ever.

I didn't think they did, but now every time I swim, I'll see them, despite being microscopic in size and being there.

I won't go in the ocean now because of the recent influx of killer jellyfish, and their near-invisible companions.

The odds of that happening to you are so low they're hardly worth mentioning.

You're far more likely to get murdered.

And if you get murdered, it's usually by someone you know.

I wouldn't doubt it.

Most of the people I know are pricks.

People have been swimming everywhere since the dawn of history, no need to panic. It's just common sense to refrain from swimming in filthy water.
Avoid small closed ponds, unless it's an oasis in the middle of the desert.

All in all, I think getting murdered would be an unexpectedly badass way to die. It depends on the circumstances, of course, but seriously.

Oh, and to add to the subject: we discussed this affliction in my AP Psych class, along with insomnia and narcolepsy. Scared me, too.

Getting murdered is not a badass way to die, unless it's on the battlefield.

I disagree.

Imagine you die and your son has to tell his friends what happened:

"My dad was murdered."

Insta-win.

Unless my son is another badass who'd go on a killing spree to avenge me, I disagree.

I'd say it's fine so long as he isn't emo about it.

I'd ask my would-be murderer to kill my son if I knew he'd be an emo about it, that's for sure.

Oasisses (Oasees?) in the desert tend to be clean as hell anyway.

I buy CDs I want. If I just want a song or two, that's that.

Oasis?

Obviously. But the plural is actually Oases.

I had to read the topic. I thought you were wondering how to spell it.

Then again, I missed the part where you're making it plural. I don't know how to spell it plurally. *looks it up*

EDIT: Oases. (...Huh.)

EDIT2: Oh, you clever ninja you... [/Swan]

Well, for once I'm happy that my ears and sinuses have an adverse reaction to water, making ear and nose plugs absolutely necessary whenever I go swimming, be it at a pool or a lake or a river or the ocean or a bathtub or a shower or...

Or...?

Something tells me I don't want to know what comes next. You're gross, Opal. You have a dirty mouth.

I was encompassing any that I forgot.

I think you have a dirty brain, Mike.

You have dirty typing fingers!

I was encompassing things like oases, hotsprings, rainstorms, and the like.

Yes.

Rain gets in my ears and causes infections.

You have dirty typing fingers, end of story.

Well, I won't argue with that. I haven't washed them since I got off of work, and I've been cleaning since I got home.

One time I didn't wash my hands after happy time, and then went on the computer.




Happy time consists of creating mud milkshakes and getting the neighbor-kids to drink them.