Mega Man 11

[Xero]

I love how stupidly OP you become once you beat the game and get the OP parts.

Unlimited Gear usage + Infinite Weapon energy + Speed Gear Booster = Quick Man on steroids.

Fighting the bosses in slow time allows you to study the boss patterns. 

[Mikero]

time to go back into hiding.

Don't. We miss you.

My Mega Man rankings are as followed.  Keep in mind that all of the games are good. 

4 > 11 > 9 > 10 > 5 > 6 > 3 > 7 > 2 > 8 > 1

I'm having alot of fun with 11 and it's definitely in my top 3.

Didn't expect that order at all. Definitely a more unique take than mine would be, especially with MM1-3.

[Xero]

time to go back into hiding.

Don't. We miss you.

My Mega Man rankings are as followed.  Keep in mind that all of the games are good. 

4 > 11 > 9 > 10 > 5 > 6 > 3 > 7 > 2 > 8 > 1

I'm having alot of fun with 11 and it's definitely in my top 3.

Didn't expect that order at all. Definitely a more unique take than mine would be, especially with MM1-3.

4 to me had the perfect length I liked the either that someone other than Wily "could" be a villian.  Plus the robot masters were nice especially Skull Man & Dive Man.

[TheRedPriest]

I liked Skull Man conceptually, but his weapon is really kind of #####.  I generally hate the "barrier" style weapons, and I don't think Skull Man really thematically mixed well with that weapon type.

[NovaMan XP]

Did Skull Barrier even have any practical use? Even using it as Dive Man's weakness was probably more dangerous than going Buster only...

And I agree, the shield weapons are generally bad... I think only Jewel Satellite and Junk Shield are the ones I'd actually use outside of boss weaknesses.

[Xero]

I like their designs.  Not their weapons (Although Dive Missile is pretty useful)

[Mikero]

No I definitely think 4 is a great one, love the RM designs in it. I just think 1-3 and 7 are much better than, say, 10. But MM3 is probably my favourite one at this point.

[TheRedPriest]

4 and 7 are my top two games, probably.  11 is solidly in the middle of the list though.  I wish the music was stronger, and Wily's stages had more content (even 1 has more Wily stage content than 11).

[Xero]

The thing with Mega Man (At least the Classic Series goes), because every game is enjoyable to play, there is no end-all be all ranking.  Everyone is going to have a differing opinion on which their favorites are.  Sure 1 and possibly 8 are going to be towards the lower end, but every game is genuinely a blast to play.

[TheRedPriest]

That's true, there really aren't any BAD classic games.  While I'd argue 8 is the WEAKEST of them, I still enjoy playing it.

Apart from that, the Gameboy games and side games (ala R&F) can be much more all over the place in quality.

[Mikero]

The thing with Mega Man (At least the Classic Series goes), because every game is enjoyable to play, there is no end-all be all ranking.  Everyone is going to have a differing opinion on which their favorites are.  Sure 1 and possibly 8 are going to be towards the lower end, but every game is genuinely a blast to play.

I agree to an extent. There's no BAD classic MM games and everyone will thus have a different order of favourites but I think it's still fun to discuss.

For me personally I can't put MM1 at the bottom just because it doesn't have some of the newer features of the others. If I'm looking purely for a fun-time, I would probably pick MM1, and even MMII, over MM8. It's all personal, but I find MM8's story (voice acting aside) better than it's actual gameplay in the end.

[Xero]

MM1 is good, but there are some issues, the fact that your jump isn't altered in the water is jarring, but water is only in Ice Man's stage.  I played MM2 first so this took some getting used to.  Also the fact that you have no invincibility frames after getting hit so if you fall into spikes your dead.

[TheRedPriest]

I don't think that's true.  You can damage boost in MM1, but spikes are just a OHKO even if you have I frames.  They just literally don't matter on spikes in MM1.  Part of me really likes that there is NO surviving spikes, invincible or not.

[Xero]

Still caught me off guard the first time playing it. 

[Vinchenz Rock]

The insta-killing spikes in MM1 always reminded me of how in Sonic 1 the spikes would insta-kill you regardless of your I-frames, and how both series "fixed" that with the sequels. Luckily, in both games, there's really not too many places where that bit of design purposely screws you over (aside from Cut Man's stage and one of the Wily stages).

I think MM1 is an important game especially for building the foundations of the series but I honestly don't get much joy out of its sticky controls and level design. Both of which were vastly improved in the sequel (and refined even further with 3 & 4).

Though I always did kinda prefer how both MM1 and MMX1 had you fight the boss refights through the final stages rather than dumping them all together at the end.

[NovaMan XP]

I personally really love MM1, but I'm super biased since it was one of the first games I ever played as a kid. It does have its flaws, but overall it was still pretty solid. I think my only hated parts back then were fighting Yellow Devil and the Copy Robot.

[ChaosVortex]

Power gear is largely irrelevant in the game.  Speed Gear is what most of the game was built around using.  There are very few places a Power Gear Master Weapon is needed.

Been routing my speedruns before I actually attempt to beat my PB. So far from what I've learned, is two things.

[spoiler]1) From a casual playthrough/perspective, the Speed Gear is a handicap made to assist you into platforming better. The game is designed to be harder in order to promote this mechanic, such as areas in Torch Man's stage, Block Man's stage, Wily Stage 2, and more. Bosses that declare "Speed Gear" are also designed to be countered with your own Speed Gear. Like or dislike this mechanic, this is clearly the pressured design choice they were going for, which is something Mikero disliked (and I kinda don't like as well). You can still be a purist and not use the gears but I just watched someone's blind playthrough with a heart rate censor who refused to use the gears. Their heart rate went from low 90s to 127 in Torch Man's stage alone.

The Power Gear is as you said, very much underused unless you're skilled enough to know it can output x3 the damage if used properly.

The Double Gear is a last resort and from what I have seen, is either completely forgotten about or refusal to utilize due to the risk involved.

2) Now let's discuss the SPEEDRUN perspective.

Speed Gear is used to cheese mini bosses. Since the Speed Gear actually makes you slower, it's only utilized to out synch enemies on screen so you can slide under them with just enough slow down so you don't have to stop or damage boost, or out synch a weapon they use so you can move past unhindered. Mini bosses have no I-Frames so you just Speed Gear, unload a Rapid Fire button, and you can one cycle the Block Man mini bosses or the Mammoth in Tundra Man's Stage. This is the first Mega Man game where competitive play needs a rapid fire, it's definitely faster than my trigger when using Speed Gear.

Power Gear is utilized with weapons like Tundra, Impact, Block, and others. They beat bosses faster or you calculate weapon usage so strategically, you know when to Power Gear your Impact to cross gaps just enough to gain time.

Double Gear is never used except for one route used to gain the World Record where you intentionally take damage along the way in Block Man's stage so you can "Double Gear Final Charge Shot" the boss and skip phase 2 and phase 3 of the fight entirely.

If you want to really use the gears for fun, speedrun the game. But from a casual sense, I'd just suggest doing a "no-gear" run. I'm curious if theres an alternate ending via dialogue with Wily for not using gears.[/spoiler]

[Xero]

I'm curious if theres an alternate ending via dialogue with Wily for not using gears.

[spoiler]sadly, there is not.  A missed opportunity there honestly[/spoiler]

Anyways, I'm glad that the Double Gear system is optional because as we know a forced gimmick ruins a game.  Look at X6 and the #####ing nightmare system, or Star Fox Zero and the forced Wii U pad usage.  

I never used the gears until after I beat the game.  

[ChaosVortex]

I used them because I was trying to be the fastest clear time blind among everyone playing, and usually it was to gain a boost for Impact, screen clear with Tundra, or being paranoid in sections like Wily 2 with Speed Gear.

[Xero]

I'm trying to do Dr.Light's trial now.  It's hard stuff.

I really want an endless attack mode in the future if DLC is coming. 

[ChaosVortex]

CAPCOM seems to be very hesitant on Mega Man 11 currently so we'll just wait and see. When Inafune left, he spiritually took Mega Man with him and the company lost confidence with their IP. When Mighty No. 9 ultimately failed to pick up, Inafune's credibility dropped, and CAPCOM took careful measures to pick up the ball with the Legacy Collection releases.

[Xero]

And they succeeded for the most part.  They did things that should have been implemented way long before this.  The weapon wheel, mapping Rush to buttons, different varying difficulties are all great quality of life measures.

[TheRedPriest]

Really, by the most broad measures they only dropped the ball on the Wily stages, by only having 2 actual stages.  The rest is all arguable.

[Xero]

Would have liked more Wily stages as well, but this is a good start for them. 

[TheRedPriest]

It is a good start, but I'll disagree with you about it being ok to only have 2 Wily stages.  That's not really excusable regardless.  Even Mega Man 1's final 2 Wily stages had more meat to them than 11s.

[Xero]

You're completely right about Wily Fortress.  I wasn't contesting that.

[Majikn]

The main reason I've held off on buying it is waiting for some complete edition of the game. I'm with others on pretty much assuming there will be DLC.

[TheRedPriest]

If they do DLC there won't be a "complete" edition.  It's too small a game to repress the disc or cart with the DLC added, plus Capcom almost always just rereleases the same base disc with a #####ing voucher to download the DLC so you don't actually get it because the DLC is still separate from the game and not on disc.

Just buy it now.

[ChaosVortex]

Yeah you actually MISSED content by not pre-ordering the game and/or getting the game asap with the demo.

[Xero]

Get the game already.  It's another solid title in the series. 

[Mikero]

I haven't bought it yet either, I just have too much going on these days that I'm way behind or I have to justify games I REALLY want like Spider-Man or RDR2. MM11 isn't something that's going away or that I need a rush, the beauty of the game is that you can play whenever and have a fun time, like how games used to be (and still should be).

I'm totally against pre-ordering unless it's an exclusive collector's edition that comes with a physical statue or other doohickey, though. "Missing" content via not pre-ordering is some bull#####. The whole pre-order sales business is corrupt on both sides, the retailer and the developer/publisher. It abuses the consumer.

If they do DLC there won't be a "complete" edition.  It's too small a game to repress the disc or cart with the DLC added, plus Capcom almost always just rereleases the same base disc with a #####ing voucher to download the DLC so you don't actually get it because the DLC is still separate from the game and not on disc.

Just buy it now.

While true, you're only thinking physical editions. Which I get, I prefer to buy physical as well. But they can easily "repackage" the digital version as a complete edition.

[TheRedPriest]

You're better off putting a bullet in your brain then buying digital.

[Xero]

I will buy digital only if the file size doesn't take up too much space.  But games that take up too much space will be physical. 

[ChaosVortex]

I'm totally against pre-ordering unless it's an exclusive collector's edition that comes with a physical statue or other doohickey, though. "Missing" content via not pre-ordering is some bull#####. The whole pre-order sales business is corrupt on both sides, the retailer and the developer/publisher. It abuses the consumer.

The content you "missed" was if you pre-ordered via Playstation, a Mega Man home screen for your system. Steam, Microsoft and Nintendo offered nothing to my knowledge.

Pre-ordering at Gamestop via a bundle got you stickers (which my store didn't actually give me cause they suck) and an Amiibo bundle with your Nintendo Switch version. Nintendo users have Amiibo functionality with their game.

If you had the demo on any of your systems (excluding Steam because it didn't get one), you would be asked to have one-time use items on your first New Game you opt into. You will not be asked again in the future. I imagine this was something like an extra 1-Up or an E-Tank because I didn't even realize I had them on my first playthrough.

All pre-ordered versions however received instrumental tracks in their options menu. You can switch the 8 robot master themes for their instrumental themes in game for free. If you missed it, it might be purchasable as DLC, but I'm not sure.

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is doing something similar. As revealed today through the Smash Direct: Those who pre-order will get a Piranha Plant fighter for free, similar how they did with Mewtwo for Club Nintendo members.

It's silly. I feel Sakurai was pressured to make DLC fighters and a pre-order incentive for business alone.

[Mikero]

Yeah... I mean, I was talking more about pre-ordering as a general topic, not specifically MM11, but since you brought up Smash; I looked on the official site and it said this about Piranha Plant:

Purchase and register your game with My Nintendo by Jan. 31 and Piranha Plant will join the battle when it’s available!

And further down the page:

Purchase and register the game by Jan. 31, get Piranha Plant for free!
Register your game with My Nintendo by Jan. 31, 2019, and Piranha Plant will join the battle when it’s available, around Feb. 2019!

How to get Piranha Plant:
Buy the digital version of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on Nintendo.com or
Nintendo eShop before 11:59 p.m. PT on Jan. 31, 2019 p.m PT. (The game will automatically be registered to your account.)

OR

Buy the retail version and register the game card with My Nintendo before 11:59 p.m. PT on Jan. 31, 2019.

Whether that's true or not, it implies that simply buying the game at launch on December 7th and registering before January 31st will still get you the Piranha Plant for free.

Though part of what they said in the direct WAS 100% about pre-ordering right now: You get double gold points if you pre-order the digital version in the next few days.

[Xero]

From Capcom investor relations

“In this business, the Monster Hunter series served as the driving force in improving the Company’s business performance. Feature title Monster Hunter: World (for PlayStation 4 and Xbox One) was a phenomenal success in the previous fiscal year, and continued to maintain popularity through the expansion of its user base, while the strong performance of the Steam version for PC boosted profits. Further, Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate (for Nintendo Switch), which was released in markets outside of Japan, enjoyed robust sales owing to its consistent popularity.

In addition, Mega Man 11 (for PlayStation 4, Nintendo Switch, Xbox One and PC) and Red Dead Redemption 2 (for PlayStation 4 and Xbox One), a distribution title, reported strong sales, while sales of Onimusha, (for PlayStation 4, Nintendo Switch and Xbox One), which was released at the end of 2018, were also off to a good start."

WE DID IT BOYS!  MEGA MAN X9 HERE WE #####ING COME!!!1!!11shift+1oneoneone

[TheRedPriest]

I'm still honestly not looking forward to any possible X9 given how ##### Mega Man Zero is and how ##### X has been for a solid 4 games straight.  Capcom's head is way too far up it's own horrible lore ass to make a good X game.  I have no faith it won't be #####.

[Xero]

Giving Capcom's success with Monster Hunter, and Resident Evil 2, I'm willing to give Capcom the benefit of the doubt.

Also the official numbers for Mega Man 11 apparently are at around 870,000 copies and X Collection did 920,000.

There is a good chance both will break 1 million.

[TheRedPriest]

Capcom's net good will is still deep in the toilet.  They're going to have to several years of doing it right again before they earn that back.  From me at least.

And nearing a million sales on MM11 is a good sign indeed.  Though I'm far more interested in Mega Man 12 than X9.  Hopefully they dip their toe into a Legends Collection next.

[Mikero]

I don't see how Mega Man 11 having strong sales automatically equals Megaman X9 being made rather than MM12 or nothing at all.

Regardless, I don't think the prospect of X9 is at all cause for celebration and I really couldn't give a ##### less how much money Capcom or any corporation makes. Make good games, end of story. I don't know how you find a way to get hyped over Capcom's sales figures, Xero, but bless you. Your positivity knows no bounds.

[Xero]

I'm more or less exaggerating, but it's just good to see that Mega Man is doing very well. 

[Mikero]

True true true true.

I think for me I just want them to stop messing around with the beloved series of the past. I wouldn't mind something totally new instead of mediocre iterations that only remind me the halcyon days of Mega Man are over.

[TheRedPriest]

They're only over because Capcom decided to end it.  They could make new Mega Man games.  Easily.  And they'd make money on them.  Just not the AMOUNT of money they want to make.  So they'd rather not make any money at all.

[Xero]

Would it be wrong to say that the reason why Mega Man had fizzled out was because of over saturation of games (Battle Network/Zero/ZX/Star Force/)  I think people were betting burned out with Mega Man.

[TheRedPriest]

The quality of them had gone to ##### as well.  X7 and X8 were dumpster fires.  BN took a destructive pokemon turn splitting the last 4 games into 2 versions, watering down 1 games worth of content, and the gameplay was also considerably weaker than the first 3.  Star Force was just #####, period.  Zero was either love it or hate it, and ZX was just an objectively awful version of Zero.

Quality was just non existent AND they dumped it in too large a quantity at the same time.  That's what led to the burn out.

[Majikn]

I'm optimistic but I'll believe X9 when I see it, and I'll believe it's worth buying when I see more of it.

[NovaMan XP]

I would like an X9 only because I miss the X series gameplay. The story would probably be bad, but maybe they'll pretend X5-X8 never happened and stop the whole "the world is so #####ing ruined" stuff already.

[Teelio]

Proper closure to the X universe would be welcomed, to say the least.

[Xero]

As long as it doesn't lead to the elf wars...Let X be happy for once.

[Mikero]

They're only over because Capcom decided to end it.  They could make new Mega Man games.

You misunderstand, I said the halcyon days are over. They could make easily new Mega Man games, but not necessarily good ones, or even ones that are remotely interesting. The golden era is long gone. Every new classic game (and by extension future X games) is just a lacklustre re-hash. MM9 and MM11 were ok but still don't capture anyone like Mega Man 1-7.

It's not even a case where the industry has moved on or there is lack of interest. These types of games still have a market, albeit much smaller, as evidenced by the indie game world and the amount of money that individuals will pour into a Kistarter project for a WORSE LOOKING side-scroller action platformer. It's just a complete fumble on Capcom's part.

Would it be wrong to say that the reason why Mega Man had fizzled out was because of over saturation of games (Battle Network/Zero/ZX/Star Force/)  I think people were betting burned out with Mega Man.

You're half-right. Megaman didn't fizzle out because of the amount of different series, but it WAS that they shelled out so many games with such low quality. BN and MMZ were arguably very successful in their beginnings, but dropped off as the games became samey and cheaply produced (BN4 being an incredibly example of how lazily made a game can be). Star Force and ZX were just extensions of that trend, which is why they weren't nearly as popular. And that's all after or around the same time that the X series pooped the bed.

You could argue that maybe if they had less series altogether they could focus on more quality games in each, but I think it's obvious that Capcom was mainly focused on shovelling out as much MM as possible back then, since they did not take their time AT ALL with any series regardless. From 2000 to 2005, SEVEN non-remake/re-release Megaman X games were released... And the best of them was #####ing Megaman Xtreme. If you don't count those GBC games then I guess the best was X5? That is ultimately pathetic.