E3

[Mikero]

Daemon X Machina news would be great! I wouldn't expect much Metroid Prime 4 at this stage since they pretty much had to rewind it.

Note:  Both Mega Man X & Doomguy are celebrating their 25th anniversaries this year.  Take that for what you will.

Nothing. More likely to see some kind of MMX thing but I doubt much since if they wanted to release an anniversary game (which they basically did with the collection anyway) we'd already know about it.

[Xero]

Bethesda's conference was almost total garbage.  The only thing I wanted to see was Doom Eternal.  And that was very satisfying.  But why do they need to show that at the end of the conference? 

And it's CLEARLY OBVIOUS there were shills in the audience.

[TheRedPriest]

Did you see Battletoads?  Jesus that looks like hot garbage.  That style does not fit or serve the game at all.  It looks like they put zero effort into it.

[Xero]

Yeah.  The animation looks horrible.  But on the other hand, Streets of Rage 4 looks decent.  Not sure I like those supers though. 

[TheRedPriest]

Streets of Rage is passable if not disappointing.  It still looks like a cheap flash game to me.

[Speed Racer]

Bethesda's conference was almost total garbage.  The only thing I wanted to see was Doom Eternal.  And that was very satisfying.  But why do they need to show that at the end of the conference? 

And it's CLEARLY OBVIOUS there were shills in the audience.

I think the most obvious shills were the ones getting excited about Commander Keen.

[Xero]

HOLY ##### BANJO IN SMASH.

Oh and Dragon Quest Hero too.  I guess

[LCrazy11]

at least the psychopaths at ID software are doing good stuff in doom eternal

[Xero]

It's about time they brought the Mana Collection over to the US.

[TheRedPriest]

Stream made it look like Collection of Mana was digital only and I had a mini aneurysm, but later after the stream it was clarified that it will get a retail release in late August.

Other than that, the direct was amazing.  Nintendo destroyed the rest of the shows.  One of their best for sure.  It was only lacking Bayonetta 3 news/update.  I do wonder if the Witcher 3 is getting a retail release though since it's sure to be pretty big.  A "cartridge release" where you have to download the other 80 gigs of the game isn't a retail release.  If it does get one, I may actually pick it up.  I loved the Banjo reveal mirroring Krool's.  No one cares about another #####ing sword user though, so the DQ Hero was about as disappointing as could be.  Not that it matters, I don't buy DLC like that, but it would have been nice to have Banjo.  He's the best of the 5 so far by a mile.

[Xero]

Joker and Edrick aren't characters I want (But at the same time I don't not want them either.)  Plus allowing to chose various hero alts was nice.  As for E3 itself, I'm impressed.  There are alot of games I going to give a try and I can't wait for the Sieken Desentu 3 remake.  Looks better than the Secret of Mana remake.  Also Link's Awakening looks nice, and No More Heroes 3 is sweet as well.  

Nintendo and Square cleaning up the ##### the other companies (Except for ID software because Doom Eternal was glorious and Microsoft was actually decent).

Looks like Square is pulling a Capcom and has entered its redemption arc as well.  Let's see if they can keep it up.

[TheRedPriest]

Capcom is still doing awful practices though.  They're just doing it with better games instead of awful games.

[Mikero]

Banjo has me hyped, obviously.

Would have liked some Bayonetta and Metroid but otherwise Nintendo is the only big three presentation I liked at all.

[TheRedPriest]

Nintendo had a loaded E3 this year.  The best by far, no doubt.

[Teelio]

Aside from celebrity cameos, that was just an average E3. I've come to believe that every even year holds a stellar E3 show while the odd numbers are at least on par. 2020 is already looking promising.

Let's face it. Keanu Reeves won the show (and the internet). But as far as big-time presenters, Nintendo takes the cake.

My only gripe about Nintendo's show was a lack of discussion on their Nintendo Online subscription. I figured they would have announced SNES-streamed games for the service, or at the very least, announce a bundle on new NES ports.... More than the usual 2-3 they announce every month.

Still a good show, regardless.

[TheRedPriest]

No one wants a subscription game service.  We want an eshop where we can buy games and not have to #####ing worry about ANOTHER #####ing monthly subscription fee holding our content hostage.

[Mikero]

Doesn't matter, it's happening. Unfortunately. And people said the same about Netflix, anyway.

This is another case of something evolving whether people like it or not, what we need to do from here is establish a long-term market for those of us that want to continue with actually owning copies of games (whether physical or not, but especially physical). Plenty (like the majority) of people will adapt to the streaming service method, it's inevitable.

[TheRedPriest]

And?  Netflix is still ##### compared to buying and owning material.  Because people have largely thrown away their rights doesn't make it good.  The only difference to movies/music vs games is you can record a program and play it back and not lose anything for the experience.  Streaming games makes it impossible to actually PLAY it later.  All you could do is record a play through and watch it later passively.

We need laws to protect us as consumers.  We should be entitled to a local copy of anything we buy, and that should be a MANDATORY option, not just stream only.  It's the only way to protect consumers, and more importantly preserve media.

[Mikero]

You really defend certain things as if they're people, even if others are agreeing. Again, I happen to agree with everything you said here, which is exactly why in my previous post I said establishing a long term market for the rapidly dying breed of  physical gamers is of utmost importance.

I have nothing but contempt for the game streaming movement. Not only does it ##### the consumer over in the ways you listed but it fingers people that live in rural areas too.

[TheRedPriest]

Our internet infrastructure is ##### pretty much everywhere in this country, and even if it wasn't, ISPs overcharge the ##### out of what they have now.  With internet fast and reliable enough to do that kind of game cloud streaming no one could afford the internet bills even if it was up to snuff.  So really, it #####s everyone.

[Majikn]

I don't even understand the technology of game streaming. On one hand I think it could be great. People are all about how you don't need some super powerful computer to play certain games, and those physical limitations are blown away, but... and Mike already touched on this, but how is the connection not just the new bottleneck?

I can't tell if this is technology so radical I can't wrap my brain around it, or if it really is just a well-marketed bad idea tailored to make ISPs a ton of money, or a bit of both.

[Xero]

Streaming is hot garbage and I hope it never gets off the ground.

[TheRedPriest]

Keep in mind that streaming also completely deprives you of any ownership of the games.  You never even have a local copy, it's all stored off site.  This exacerbates the problem of games or content disappearing once licenses expire.  Don't think for a moment that isn't what developers want to do so they have total control over what you can buy or do.  It's the worst possible option for gamers and consumers, and the ONLY thing really holding it back is the decrepit internet infrastructure and pricing we have on it.

[Mikero]

Streaming is hot garbage and I hope it never gets off the ground.

I don't like the idea of streaming games, but that's what I thought about things like streaming TV shows before the technology was there. Watching choppy ass stuff on megavideo had us thinking it would never be feasible to 100% stream, but things have a way of catching up when there's money to be made.

Ownership issues aside, the tech works--But at least while the Netflix model isn't financially successful it isn't proven to be safe... yet.

I don't even understand the technology of game streaming. On one hand I think it could be great. People are all about how you don't need some super powerful computer to play certain games, and those physical limitations are blown away, but... and Mike already touched on this, but how is the connection not just the new bottleneck?

I guarantee you're correct, it's just shifting what stage of the bottleneck occurs in.

I can't tell if this is technology so radical I can't wrap my brain around it, or if it really is just a well-marketed bad idea tailored to make ISPs a ton of money, or a bit of both.

I'd say bit of both but probably leaning more on the radical tech side. They're gonna push it because the only thing better than making you buy their product is making you pay for it monthly and you don't get to actually OWN it. I feel like they're basically thinking that the technology is nearly there and they can push it, even if it sucks, and eventually make it the norm.

[TheRedPriest]

I don't like streaming games for the same reason I don't like digital only games.  You don't own them.  Streaming a passive experience vs an interactive one can't be compared.  You can record a movie or song, and play it back and it's the same as streaming it because you passively interact with it.  Games require input and interaction, and you can't replicate that by doing a recording.

[Johncarllos]

I get enough input delay streaming from my PC to the HTPC in the living room over a gigabit connection. Adding the 60ms round trip time to the closest game streaming servers makes game unplayable, if you have any iota of skill.

It's fine for a game with no real aiming or reaction time, like a playable storybook type thing, but I'm used to zero delay.

I think the only game streaming service worth a shot is Shadow, because you're not simply streaming from a library, it's just a high end gaming PC equivalent in a server rack that you treat as your own remote desktop. You have to have your own digital copies of PC games, and it's just a PC you rent to stream them from.

Even then, I think shadow would only be worth it if you were extremely close to the datacenters that house them, which I think can keep input delay under 15ms and round trip time under 30, which is better than a lot of TVs.

[Mikero]

I get enough input delay streaming from my PC to the HTPC in the living room over a gigabit connection. Adding the 60ms round trip time to the closest game streaming servers makes game unplayable, if you have any iota of skill.

I'm not trying to advocate for the idea, but I will play Devil's advocate a bit: Don't focus so much on how it works currently this is about long term business models (I mean, this stuff is all over CNN Business and everything), but in defense of that it's already worked in Asia where internet speeds are nearly 3x faster than North America, and that's realistically the bigger and better market to target. Although Stadia won't be able to hit China, and I feel like Project xCloud is more geared towards americans (and will likely fail).

I don't know much about gigabit connections but that's still not the norm, it's anecdotal really, so we have to think about this in terms of national averages. For example, in a July 2019 ranking of worldwide internet speeds, the United States had and average speed of 32.89mbps, and Japan's was 42.77mbps (a difference 5 minutes on a 5GB download), and Taiwan's speed was... 85.02mbps (#1 rank worldwide).

I don't like cloud gaming one bit, I feel I have to keep reiterating that, but it's not hard to see that it could become technologically viable in under 10 years.

[Johncarllos]

I think as far as sheer download speed is concerned, most places in the US are capable of streaming 1080p games. My biggest concern is the latency. If I'm streaming a game in Maine, and the closest datacenter housing the servers that are actually running the games is near Boston, every command I input won't make it to the server for 20-40ms at best, and the return footage from that action won't make it for another 20-40ms.

I think the biggest hurdle is that things are spaced out in North America. Every wirecenter that a connection has to go through adds latency as signals are converted between copper and fiber and back again.

NYC? Most of California? Atlanta? Perfect places.

Anything outside of Toronto in Canada? The rest of the US? Gross.

And what I was saying about my connection: I'm talking about literally only my personal connection directly wired between computers. Without leaving the apartment I still find the delay to be abysmal.

I actually work for a telecom engineering firm now (mostly designing infrastructure), and although my job doesn't deal with actual end user speeds, I've got a greater understanding of the tiers of communication at state level installations now.


I'll jump on the DEVIL'S advocate train as well though: as fiber to the home becomes more common and latency is limited by the speed of light without resistance, I can definitely see it permeating the market in the next 10 years. If only telecoms weren't just pocketing all the government money and were actually using it on infrastructure more, we might have already been there. I actually do part of the government funded work at my job, and seeing the budget waste is disheartening.

[Mikero]

Yeah it’s crazy how far behind the US and Canada are in the internet game. That TOR1 data center is basically dwarfing all of our other ones. 2nd largest country in the world and we’re not nearly connected well enough.

[Xero]

*Revives topic because he can*

Well E3 2021 has come and gone, and just wanted to say

HOLY ##### METROID DREAD IS ALIVE, ADVANCED WARS REMAKE, PROPER MARIO PARTY AND KAZYUA IN SMASH!

Nintendo was the only good conference next to Microsoft

[TheRedPriest]

I'd be a lot more excited for Metroid if it wasn't a lazy, ugly ass 2.5D mess.  I didn't care much for the 3DS Samus Returns (really, AM2R was a thousand times better) in either look or play (I hated the melee smacks and crap).  Dread is made by the same studio, and it shows.  I'll probably still pick it up, but it looks like trash, as almost all 2.5D games do.

The only thing that personally got me excited was the port of Fatal Frame 5 to the Switch since the Wii U version was digital only.  Then I find out it's going  multi-platform (fine) AND it's DIGITAL ONLY AGAIN, on EVERYTHING.  Jesus Christ.  Well, whatever.  ##### KT.  Maybe they'll be an English-Asia physical copy.  Guess we'll see.

I did like the Advance War remakes, but again, I'd bet money those are digital only.  Just like the Famicom Detective Club was.  So another one I won't be picking up I'd like.

That aside, Nintendo had the best showing at E3 by FAR.  It wasn't even a contest.

[Snare]

Some day, Switches loaded with digital-only titles that are no longer downloadable anywhere will be worth serious bank.

[TheRedPriest]

Like phones with Flappy Birds or PS3s with PT.

[Majikn]

I gasped at the sight of Advance Wars before realizing it was just a remake.

Still, it could be neat to play those online.

Metroid Dread surprised me and I stuck around for some of the gameplay of that. It looks as good as I expected Samus Returns to be, for sure.

I also watched the Elden Ring trailer and Zelda, of course.

None of what I saw impressed me, but I think that's just me being old.

[Teelio]

   Wasn't expecting any Metroid news at all, much less any hope for a sequel to Fusion. I'll take Metroid 5 over Prime 4 any given day. My only concern for this title is if they can truly hold up to the "Dread" title, which is quite a claim considering the follow-up to Fusion's SA-X. From what was shown in the videos, these E.M.M.I.s look less "dread"-ful than the SA-X and more so "a-pain-in-the-ass". Besides, crawling machines don't come off as terrifying as an overpowered, soulless clone. Never played 3DS' Samus Returns, so not sure what to think of gameplay here. Still have to pick it up when it does release, because HNNNGHH METROID.

   Got a few fun games to hype about for the rest of the year. Psychonauts 2 is looking like a real blast. New WarioWare and Mario Party as well, only because my lady loves "games within games".

   I know nothing about Legend of Zelda (accumulated 20 minutes playtime across the whole series). Don't care about all that news.

   But hey, Monkeyball's 20th anniversary.

   

[Snare]

None of what I saw impressed me, but I think that's just me being old.

I definitely hear you there.

Honestly, the only way I would've truly gotten excited is if they'd announce a Dragon Quest Builders 3. And until that day comes I vow to be dour and morose.

Like phones with Flappy Birds or PS3s with PT.

I didn't know phones with flappy bird were worth anything extra. I looked up how much one sold for and I am now depressed.

[TheRedPriest]

Honestly, to get me excited a game needs to be physically released, complete, from an established series I like, have actual gameplay.  Anything that launches with "planned dlc for the next 4 years!", microtransactions, games as service, season passes, digital only, or mobile are instantly garbage or a pass for me.  New IPs rarely tick many boxes because they're riddled with the last list of awful game things.

[Johncarllos]

Honestly, to get me excited a game needs to be physically released, complete, from an established series I like, have actual gameplay.  Anything that launches with "planned dlc for the next 4 years!", microtransactions, games as service, season passes, digital only, or mobile are instantly garbage or a pass for me.  New IPs rarely tick many boxes because they're riddled with the last list of awful game things.

You should pick up Hades on Switch, if you haven't already. The only 'pros' box it doesn't tick is "from an established series I like." Mikero and I absolutely adore the game. We've got 200 hours between the 2 of us.

[TheRedPriest]

I'm aware of Hades.  But it's a rougelike, which I hate as a genre.  Though in this case it actually ties directly into the plot so I might give it a pass.  I just broadly detest randomly generated ##### and losing stuff, which is pretty much all rougelikes are.  I would kind of like to pick it up though.

[Speed Racer]

The only stuff that really excited me for E3 was the Advance Wars remake and the new Cruis'n title, the latter which I can't wait to share with my oldest son.

I was disappointed with Capcom's presentation, and had read rumors that Square and Capcom were actually going to be part of Nintendo's presentation as well, which disappointed me there too. Didn't help that there were rumors of a new Mega Man title.