Super Smash Bros Ultimate

[Majikn]

I'm happy with X series music both in the unlikely hope that X will become playable, and because it seems that the people who don't want the X music could simply turn it off. One of the reasons I'm a fan of all the customization settings.

[TheRedPriest]

Why can't we have both?

Because I feel like X and classic are completely different in tone and style that it makes no sense to have X (or Zero or BN or Legends) music playing for wholly classic material.

[Xero]

Flash Man Remix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ovj8l2LeLA

[NovaMan XP]

I mean, I like MM2 as much as the next guy, but it'd be nice to see more remixes from other games. We have a few from 1 and 3... and now one from 4... but at this rate every theme from 2 will be remixed before we get anything from 5-10.

[LCrazy11]

i feel like zero as an assist was a complete waste,

he should have been a full on fight with the possible echo of protoman.exe
and megaman.exe could have been an echo for normal megaman

[NovaMan XP]

I feel like Mega Man echoes would work better if they were Proto Man or Roll. X could maybe work if he was based on Mega Man but not fully an echo. Similar to Isabelle and Villager.

Zero would've been sweet, but maybe next time.

[Xero]

i feel like zero as an assist was a complete waste,

he should have been a full on fight with the possible echo of protoman.exe
and megaman.exe could have been an echo for normal megaman

While X series Zero would be nice, I would want X to be playable first before Zero gets in.

I know it's a stretch but We still don't know if Robin's final smash is the same or not.  I say this because Chrom is now playable and was originally part of Robin's final smash.  If Robin's fianl smash IS the same, then this holds out hope that other characters that are part of another's final smash could be playable as well.

Technically Fox is part of Falco's final smash and visa versa.  Also if you really want to grasp for straws, Samus is part of Zero Suit Samus's final smash even though they are the same person.

[Mikero]

While I do think Zero would work great in Smash Bros. and be a lot of fun, the last thing we need is another sword user.

[TheRedPriest]

Then take out 4 or the 9 Fire Emblem people.

[LCrazy11]

only have 2, one we already have and another being an axe user because WE WANT SWORDS THAT ARE NOT FIRE EMBLEM!

[NovaMan XP]

It would be nice if the FE reps used more than Swords. Even Robin, being more magic focused, still uses a sword. In their games, Ike could use an axe, Chrom and Lucina could use lances.

Zero, while being a sword user, would still have some different possible moves, such as his Buster, his Lance from X7/8, or even the random weapons from the Zero series, as much as I hate MMZ. Just as long as Zero uses his X series design, I wouldn't mind it too much...

[Mikero]

Robin is a special case because the sword is a form of magic and you can't use it the entire time. While not the best of the FE fighters, Robin is probably my favourite (or close to) FE addition because of the actual difference in gameplay.

I'm an FE fan so I would love if instead of some FE characters, like possibly Ike (even though his moveset is different from the general Marth-clone) we got someone like Hector, who uses an axe. Or god forbid someone who uses a TOME or BOW. But if we're being honest they only add the very huge and titular characters from the franchise. Chrom seems like a poor addition already because Lucina fills both the role of wielding the falchion and being the representative from FE: Awakening ALONG WITH Robin. There is no point adding him in, he's not even really promoting the game now. In general, any time they pull a main character from a fantasy game this will probably be an issue. The whole genre seems scared of having the main character be anything other than a glorified knight.

I don't know, I've thought a lot about the Smash Bros. franchise's character issues since Smash 4, especially when they had write-in ballots for fighters. Bear with me here... I don't think it's about removing past characters, the problem is they keep adding swordsmiths when they shouldn't. To that effect, I'm not saying Zero wouldn't be a good addition; He'd be fantastic. He would have a wholly unique moveset, art syle, nostalgia, everything that makes a good Smash character. The problem is they put Shulk in the game, which was the perfect Zero slot.

To my chagrin, Corrin exemplifies NONE of the traits of a good Smash character like Zero would, and is only there to promote a very bad Fire Emblem game. Corrin is possibly the worst aesthetic design in FE: Fates, let along being yet another boring sword user. Corrin is probably the lone character I'd actually suggest removing from Smash Bros.

Obviously the whole idea behind Smash Bros. Ultimate having every character ever is to stop all the bitching that happens when characters get taken out. To a degree, I support that; Once a character is entered into the game I don't much reason to take them out. Especially with the ability to now have echo fighters, I think it's fun to have all the options like SNK vs. Capcom 2 did. Something I don't like about the Street Fighter series is they consistently introduce new characters then bin them, but keep the same core SF2 ones intact 'cause the game is apparently only successful for that reason. I think the problem of balancing out what kinds of characters we get should always be tackled at the ADDITION stage.

I would tell Nintendo not to worry about removing characters, just be smarter with adding them in the first place. We're done adding Fire Emblem characters to Smash Bros. for a while. Go through your ballot e-mails and take my Dig Dug suggestion, already.

[Xero]

Today's the final direct.  Hopefully we will find out the last remaining characters.  If certian leaks hold water we could be getting one of the best rosters ever. 

[Mikero]

It's already the best roster the series has ever had by default.

[Xero]

Guts Man Theme Conformed
We're The Robots Confirmed
Dr.Wily Assist Trophy!

[Mikero]

Love that the adventure mode looks like a whole game on it's own. Incineroar looks like a ton of fun.


Edit: Looks like Guts Man and Wily are also spirits, which operate very differently from assist trophies. It's similar to how stickers used to work, I guess. Gravity Man is apparently one of the masters you can train spirits with.

[Xero]

Air Man, Cut Man, Wood Man, Skull Man, Metal Man, Galaxy Man, Dr.Wily, Zero, Gravity man, and Sigma are spirits.

[Mikero]

That's way more than I expected and unfortunately my boy Shadow Man still isn't there.

[Xero]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un44CDKDqIY

Robin's final smash is the exact same!

X has a chance baby!

[Mikero]

People are treating that as a big deal signifier, as if the game doesn't already support scenarios like Samus beating up Samus.

Also, at this point X would be DLC since the direct confirmed that all base-game characters have been revealed.

[Xero]

Update

Fire Man Theme confirmed via special stream, it's hard to make out but around the 3:00 mark you can hear it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=246&v=sGii7f2IhD8

Fire Man, Bass, Sword Man are sprits.  It's possible Sword man may also have music as well.

Still so sign of X as a spirit

Posted on:  3 November 2018, 11:58:03

Mikero, Shadow man is a spirit at the 5:49 mark. 

Posted on:  3 November 2018, 11:59:09

Tron Bonne & Alie (Model X) are also spirits.

[NovaMan XP]

I'm really glad it seems like single player modes aren't being neglected this time. Smash 4 got boring pretty fast when your friends weren't around to play...

Adventure mode being back is great. And Spirits look like they can be pretty interesting. Like better versions of Stickers from Brawl. I'll miss trophies, but if they were sacrificed to put in all the other content in this game, I'm fine with that.

Overall, I think the roster is great. 76 characters including echoes. That's pretty ridiculous. My only disappointment was Isaac being brought back only to be an Assist Trophy again, but aside from that, the roster itself is pretty solid.

[Mikero]

It's so hard to get friends over to play Smash these days too, that single player mode is more important than ever. As a kid I was fine with plowing through everything to get to Master Hand over and over on N64, but I need a little more now.

Mikero, Shadow man is a spirit at the 5:49 mark.

Hell yeah, now I know what'll be on every playthrough I do.

[Majikn]

As silly as it may sound I think I really enjoyed collecting trophies in Smash. But it seems like the spirits are just trophies with some functionality that happens to not involve developing a bunch of 3D models.
The single player looks like something I will appreciate.

I'm not sure X will be DLC if he would count as an echo, but if he really is absent as a spirit then that's kind of interesting.

[Xero]

X wouldn't be an echo.  Just use different weapons for his moves.

Ex:  Grab is Strike Chain.  Throws are Silk Shot, Splash Laser, Rising Fire, and Spin Wheel.  Dash is Tornado Fang, Smashes are X-Buster, Shining Ray, and Triad Thunder, Air attacks are Frost Tower, Z-Saber, Sonic Slider, Wing Spiral, Metal Anchor.  Tilts are Ray Splasher, Thunder Dancer, and Ground Hunter.  Specials are Boomerang Cutter, Shotgun Ice, Storm Tornado, and Rolling Shield.

[Mikero]

This is fun to think of. What about:


Up Tilt: Dragon Punch. Like Mega Man, he does a nice SF uppercut.
Down Tilt: Not sure on this one, open to suggestions but I kind of think it should be a simple move rather than an actual special weapon.
Forward Tilt: Buster. Same thing as Mega Man except it does damage (but lower fire rate).
Neutral Attack: Buster lemons.

Dash Attack: This one's obvious. Instead of Top Spin, X will dash here (even if X doesn't visibly have the boot upgrade ). Comparable distance and damage can be done with this move, but with an added bonus to get a longer jump distance out of it.

Up Smash: Sonic Slider. A quick smash attack will give you only 2 blades, but charged you'll get the full lot to rain down in the area around you.
Down Smash: Ground fire. Two fireballs arc away from X, and land away from him (you could his character model between him and the fire) and burn on the ground for a short time.
Forward Smash: Charged buster. Same idea as Mega Man more or less with small differences.

Up Aerial: Storm Tornado. Similar to Mega Man's current moveset, the vertical tornado is an excellent way to push an enemy out of the screen.
Down Aerial: Triad Thunder (charged shot version). In air this is similar to Link's down+A sword stab, but with a small AOE earthquake. Similar to Donkey Kong's slap but less area. When hitting the ground a couple electric balls trace out in each direction (imagine a small version of the hothead item).
Forward Aerial: Similar to Mega Man, but it's the X-Saber instead (or Z-saber, whatever).
Neutral Aerial: Get a little fancy with this one instead, you can shoot buster shots in any of 8 directions at the dash rate.

Up Special: Ice Burst (the charged dash version). You can move vertically or horizontally (quick direction change after hitting the input) through the air but not diagonally. The icicles that fly out can freeze enemies in a block of ice (an effect already in the games) if they have high damage %. Not a popular one of X's moves, but very useable for recovering AND attacking in a Smash Bros game.
Down Special: Rolling Shield (charged). Similar to Leaf Shield, of course.
Forward Special: Hardest for me to pin down, I'm leaning toward a lot from X1 to be honest.
Neutral Special: Chameleon Sting but each laser can bounce once off a wall.

Grab: Silk Shot, can pull them in at a small distance.

Final Smash: Giga Attack? Maybe Nova Strike but on a massive level we've never seen before.

For a little extra fun, let X do a small hadouken ONLY if you do the actual SF2 inputs for it.

X can wall jump at an easier rate than other characters.

I believe this can work as an acceptable echo fighter of Mega Man while still feeling like a whole character. Now someone else do the floor and edge attacks, I'm tired.

[Xero]

Nice, but may I suggest Speed Burner as an alternate Up Special?  Either or work well.

As far as forward special, maybe Magnet Mine (You can control it slightly while it's moving similar to Snake's Side B but only it's vertical position)

Neutral Special could also be his X-Buster but have it function X3 style where if you make both shots connect it creates a powerful blast.

Other alternatives for Forward Smash:  Spinning Blade Charged, Frost Shield Charged
Forward tilt:  Fire Wave

[Mikero]

I just looked a few other proposed X movesets online, a lot of people seem to forget how essential the buster is as a character trait for X. In that sense, I'd be weary of changing the forward tilt away from buster shots since the neutral and forward tilts for most characters should be a generic move they can do and nothing too special.

I could definitely see Fire Wave as a working down tilt though, I personally like when downward moves have a bit of crowd control to them.

What's good about newer Smash games is the customization options, so X could definitely have some alternate specials too (if they add custom specials options). Spinning Blade could be a really good forward smash but also a good forward or neutral special like Mega Man's Metal Blade.

Looking at this X build idea again, it really inhabits the grey area between and echo fighter and a regular fighter... Kind of why I think X would be fine as an echo is that most of the "best" moves to use, when you apply them to the actual in-game inputs, don't really stray far from Mega Man's SSB4 moveset.

It seems political to a lot of fans but I don't think there's anything wrong about a character being an echo fighter. I get the impression that people think it's like an insult that a character is an "echo" instead of a "full" character but in the end I'm just gonna display all fighters separately anyway.

The whole echo fighter thing gets a little murkier when you consider how "clone" characters have evolved. Characters that are straight up clones (even with slightly different attributes) are now echo fighters, but some characters that were originally clones (Ganondorf, Falco) have been tweaked enough they are no longer clones.

Dr. Mario is a good example because his clone status in Melee was oft debated by fans--even though he had totally different physics in every move. He was removed from Brawl because he was deemed a clone, and now here he is in SSBU as a full fledged fighter.

So while Falco in Ultimate isn't an echo-fighter, I see X in a similar role to Falco in Melee; He's basically the same as Mega Man but with slightly altered move effects and hit boxes. Many of his animations don't even need much altering, but even so that's a minimal task at this point (as evidenced by custom moves being available in SSB4). The explicit point of echos being that they have nearly the same animations but can still have different hitboxes and physics.

This build of X would be debateable if it's an echo or not, kind of depends on your view of Falco's Melee version I guess.

[NovaMan XP]

I've never had issues with clones as long as they made sense. Even when Ganondorf was a Captain Falcon clone it was silly but I still enjoyed it anyway.

And seeing echoes like Chrom and Ken, I don't think it's even fair to consider them clones since they are still pretty unique in their own right. Wolf was considered a clone in Brawl just because he shared some stuff with Fox... same with Lucas.

And clones can make me love a moveset too. I hated playing Fox in Melee, but loved Falco.

[Mikero]

Yeah, I always hated when people said Wolf was a clone, his specials are only visually based on Fox's but he is VERY different in play style overall.

[Xero]

Snake Man is a spirit as well. 

I'm assuming that many of the Primary spirits are going to have music tracks dedicated to them, which means it's possible Snake Man will have his own music theme in Smash.

Also Tron Bonne so we will be probably get another remix of the Flutter vs the Gleclshaft (or however you spell it...)

Posted on:  9 November 2018, 11:04:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpdOEyAfWBE

You can hear the full Mega Man 4 Medley here. 

It's Dive Man/Skull Man/Drill Man

[TheRedPriest]

"Hear it" is generous.  You can barely make it out over the noise/talking.

[Majikn]

I agree that X wouldn't have to be an echo, but he'd still be seen as in a gray area at best. It's harder to justify selling him as DLC to people if you hold the position that you intend to develop all of the new DLC characters from scratch. They've set the expectation, and even the very shallow appearance of going against that expectation could upset people.

Perhaps Nintendo would simply release an explanation alongside his announcement, trusting that he's different enough to be acceptable.

There's a lot Nintendo may yet do to surprise people, so just to be clear I'm not saying it's a bad idea, or that I'm against it. I'm just saying it would be a surprise.

[Mikero]

^ Very true. Their statement on DLC characters alone makes X unlikely (for the first batch).

[Xero]

Ice Man, Dive Man, Megaman.EXE, Geo Stellar, Wily Capsule 7, Slash Man are spirits.

Tronn Bonne's spirit battle is Wendy O Koopa with 2 acompannying Mini R.O.Bs.

Posted on: 20 November 2018, 08:03:48

Wind Man is a spirit discovered in Japanese Overview video.  

Posted on: 20 November 2018, 11:36:33

Top Man & Spark Man are also spirits in various vids.

Posted on: 20 November 2018, 14:13:21

Oh god.

The music dropped.  It is #####ING GLORIOUS

[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZQFaE1LGZg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuK6U8WFy3s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atNKynanov0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUh5qDGj4-k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld_kuK9N9vE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYI6Rzy6O54

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8mbIH9S6iY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FprgTpqnMTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NXGLPI49Ig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHJAy0n9OGs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGqHlTbf7hM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vaGUTKCTWQ

And the only theme that really #####ing matters....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDm9n_gTnBo[/spoiler]

[NovaMan XP]

I do really like all the new tracks Mega Man has gotten so far... however...

[Spoiler]Mega Man 6, 7, 8 and 10 getting no love was a bit sad... and then Zero and Star Force get a track in but not Legends or Battle Network? Odd choice... still, overall the remixes are amazing. I love that we got so many Mega Man songs this time.

Meanwhile, Sonic has no new remixes and Final Fantasy still only has TWO tracks total. Guess Sega and Square Enix are at fault for it...[/spoiler]

[Xero]

Donkey Kong got remixes that aren't Jugnle Level this time around.  Still a shame no remixes from Tropical Freeze, or any songs from Tropical Freeze in general.  Still they did the new remixes that were there justice.

[spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gjlD-vMFW0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zC6qJpBkcI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq64OIoyhgo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6JTuRu700w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYGY56kO7VQ[/spoiler]

[TheRedPriest]

What track was from Star Force or Zero?

[NovaMan XP]

I think it was in the datamine, but after seeing all the music uploads, it must've been removed. That or they're just ports of the original tracks from the games for some reason.

But apparently it was the MMZ version of Zero's theme from X1 and the title theme of SF1.

[Xero]

Mega Man apparently has the most remixes in Smash Ultimate with 17.  Add the 6 from Wii U/3DS and Mega Man has 23 remixed songs total.

Castlevania has about 13 and Fire Emblem with 10.

[NovaMan XP]

They should've given Mega Man a 2nd stage, because it's a bit of a waste to have all those songs play on only one stage.

For me, every remix will be at 100% for Wily Castle.

[Xero]

What other stage would you use for Mega Man that isn't from X, Zero, Legends, BN, SF, or ZX?  Wily's Castle seems to make the most sense.

[TheRedPriest]

Frankly, outside of the X1 Highway or maybe the Gesselshaft air battle, X, Zero, BN, SF or Legends really don't have any really iconic stuff like Wily's Castle.  Though you could just pick a random robot master or cyber scape stage or island with airships in the bg for a second stage if you really wanted to.

[NovaMan XP]

Only ideas I had were maybe the inside of Wily's Castle, or Dr. Light's Lab.

Or one of those changing stages that would switch between different Robot Master Stages or something. They could have the transitions be like the Legacy Collection Challenge modes.

X1 Opening Stage would be sweet too, though. We already have the theme remixed after all.

[Xero]

If X was DLC then I'd gladly take the Highway.

But I have to say his theme in Ultimate is awesome.  One of the best new tracks next to SMB2 Ground Theme, Crocodile Cacophony & Gangplank Galleon

[LCrazy11]

on top of the megaman 2 title screen building maybe?

[NovaMan XP]

I thought of that too but it might feel too similar to the Wily Castle Stage, especially since the Smash Bros. Version is at night.

Then again, we also have a few similar city building stages with Pokémon's Saffron City Stage and EarthBound's Fourside Stage.

Either way, I'm sure they'd be able to come up with an interesting stage idea.

[Xero]

Robot Museum might not be a bad idea.  Maybe they can utilize something where if you attack the glass surrounding the robot master displays, they break and they will come to life and aid the person who freed them from their display.

[TheRedPriest]

That's not a terrible idea, actually.

[NovaMan XP]

Huh, the Robot Museum would actually be really interesting without feeling too gimmicky. Plus, we'd actually get some Mega Man 7 remixes...