Kamon
Robot Master
Posts: 641
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« Reply #100 on: 30 December 2007, 19:54:36 » |
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You mean like MMX4's Zero VS Sigma cut scene?
I never said that was faithful gameplay. In the context of a cutscene fight between X and Zero, it would make more sense for Zero NOT to be able to shred through X's defence or attacks with ease. Posted on: 30 December 2007, 19:49:05
I'd expect a cutscene to remain faithful to gameplay abilities and limits, not just throw out random stuff for the sake of looking cool.
...Er, well they don't remain "faithful". They never really have, don't now, and probably never will. That's just how cutscenes flow, and there's thousands of direct examples. Besides, there's no rationale in holding that against cinematics like it's a bad thing. Isn't it the gameplay that's being ridiculous in that, again, it won't let me chop through an ice block with a burning sword?
It's NOT ridiculous, you're supposed to just accept it, but if you're gonna split hairs, technically the gameplay is the one being unfaithful.
Depending on the temperature of the flames, Ryuenjin could quite easily fail. Unless the technique happens to be Thermite or around that level of temperature, it wouldn't melt through the block of ice so easily. Of course, that said, Zero's Ryuenjin does destroy Frost Walrus's ice blocks but so does X's charge shot. Zero can't, however, damage the larger blocks of ice that are generated. |
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MMM's pet Tachikoma.
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Aych
Metall
Posts: 88
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« Reply #105 on: 30 December 2007, 20:43:38 » |
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No, of course not. You don't ENTIRELY disregard gameplay, it is to be considered.
As for what the rules of, say, Ryuenjin are as far as canon goes, it should still be judged in what is reasonable of the canon. When it comes to that particular technique, I think it would be safe to say it could do things like break a Frost Tower if strong enough. To keep people from overpowering anyone, you really just have to use common sense. Maybe Zero can slice a Frost Tower, but what if a Eurasia sized chunk of ice was plummeting through the atmosphere towards him?
Really, you just have to take it as it comes, case by case. It depends. What makes sense will make sense.
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Mikero
Super Robot
Posts: 11986
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« Reply #116 on: 31 December 2007, 02:16:50 » |
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While I think X would beat Zero in any case, Aych has a point. How you play doesn't mean that's how X fights. Anyway on to business I know much more about; what if a Eurasia sized chunk of ice was plummeting through the atmosphere towards him?
It would melt on entry. But it KINDA makes sense... like, if you threw ice on fire, the fire would douse out...
And if you shot fire out of a flamethrower at ice, it would melt... <_<;
It does to me...
Fire melts Ice. Ice is water. Water puts out a fire.
Water conducts electricity. Ice is water. Ice conducts electricity.
I'd say only a few times it doesn't make sense. You'd think a tree pokemon would burn up if it got hit by an electric attack. Electricity does start fires. Fires burns wood.
Reminds me, I didn't understand the whole Battle Network "Wood beats Elec" deal. Everything else was fine.
EDIT: Vinch... *shakes fist*
From the desk of Mikero; Water, Ice, and ElectricityWater conducts electricity because of it's ions. As water freezes it forces it's ions out, which become concentrated in the leftover unfrozen water. Ice is partially deionized and it's molecules and ions can barely move, so it can only conduct about as much as a static electric charge or less, and thus is an extremely poor conductor of an electrical charge. Wood and ElectricityWood has tightly bound cellulose fibers, which are too tightly bound to conduct electricity. Wood is an insulator, which is essentially the opposite of a conductor. Insulators do not easily allow the flow of electricity. Trees are struck by lightning because electricity seeks out the path to the ground with the least resistance and the moisture trapped inside a tree is a better conductor than the air. Lightning tends to do one of three things when striking a tree; Scar it, leave it completely unharmed, or utterly destroying it. Lightning tends to strike just underneath the bark, where the moisture is locked in water and sap. The result can cause a scar in the tree when the lightning moves down just under the bark, the force of which causes the bark to fly off the tree in that straight line (path of electricity). In some trees the moisture is mostly concentrated in the deep core of the tree and when the lightning strikes for the the tree is obliterated by the return stroke(s) splitting the trunk, splintering the wood, and launching off branches. If it has recently rained, a lightning strike can hit the tree and the electricity will move around the surface of the tree along that moisture until reaching the ground, leaving the tree completely unharmed. However, lightning causes most forest fires, igniting dry wood and leaves with intense heat usually from straight cloud-to-ground lightning strikes that occur independently from a rain storm. Water, Ice, and FireIf you were to drop ice on a campfire the fire might go out based on the fact that the ice smothers the fire if it's big enough. However the embers would survive and melt a small amount of the ice which would put out the embers. But to put a small amount of in a fire, or a large about of ice over a fire would end differently. Water melts more slowly than it freezes, and as such the water created by ice melting over or in a fire appears in volumes too small to quell a fire. A fire cannot destroy itself by such means. The melted water might wet some of the kindling and wood so it won't burn. But barely. ~Love, Mike |
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ChaosVortex
Super Robot
Posts: 5638
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« Reply #117 on: 31 December 2007, 03:33:13 » |
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Water, Ice, and Electricity
Water conducts electricity because of it's ions. As water freezes it forces it's ions out, which become concentrated in the leftover unfrozen water. Ice is partially deionized and it's molecules and ions can barely move, so it can only conduct about as much as a static electric charge or less, and thus is an extremely poor conductor of an electrical charge. Yeah, I hate chemistry. Probably a good excuse why I didn't know that, but if the ice itself is in the process of melting, it would conduct electricity right? Wood and Electricity
Wood has tightly bound cellulose fibers, which are too tightly bound to conduct electricity. Wood is an insulator, which is essentially the opposite of a conductor. Insulators do not easily allow the flow of electricity.
[...]
However, lightning causes most forest fires, igniting dry wood and leaves with intense heat usually from straight cloud-to-ground lightning strikes that occur independently from a rain storm. Yeah, I knew all that... mostly. I can't say I could answer all that on the top of my head, but I vaguely remember this. Water, Ice, and Fire
If you were to drop ice on a campfire the fire might go out based on the fact that the ice smothers the fire if it's big enough. However the embers would survive and melt a small amount of the ice which would put out the embers.
But to put a small amount of in a fire, or a large about of ice over a fire would end differently. Water melts more slowly than it freezes, and as such the water created by ice melting over or in a fire appears in volumes too small to quell a fire. A fire cannot destroy itself by such means.
The melted water might wet some of the kindling and wood so it won't burn. But barely.
Yeah, the water or ice has to put out the fire in one shot, otherwise the fire still exists. |
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