Discussion Topic (for obscure/intellectual topics)

[AlexThePenguin]

This topic is for things like rocket science, language discussion C++, high-level discussion and science things. Found a new subject of particular interest to you? Want to show off something? Want to debate about something? Here you go.

It can also be for questions that come up relevant to these kinds of topics. Need help with Roman numerals? Do you have a grammar-relevant question? Need some factoids to impress your friends? Here you go: the topic to ask/recieve in!


I'm curious, first of all, if anyone has any information about a fractal-building programme that came out a few years ago (Windows 95/98 era) which taught about Mandelbrot, Koch and all such fractals and had an image-making programme that had "ftactal trees" and "fractal leaves" and such. I used to love it, and I haven't seen or heard of it for years.

Also, has anyone played that evolution game where you start out as an amoeba/protozoa or whatever, and you can customise how your creature evolves and whatnot, or heard anything about it? I've been hoping it would be coming out for general public use, but again, haven't heard about it since that one Google video.

[Speed Racer]

The video game that you're talking about is Spore, Will Wright's latest thing. It isn't out in stores yet (no demo released either); it isn't due out until either the end of this year or the start of 2009.

Edit: According to Yubi, it is getting a September release.

[Chron]

For your fractal program, take a look at this list: http://home.att.net/~Paul.N.Lee/Fractal_Software.html

Could be any of those (but it isn't Apophysis, which I used to create my new desktop... what I might share).

Anyway, I'm a computer scientist, so if anyone wants to talk about programming, complexity, computing theory, etc., I'm your guy. Or one of them.
Rather I want to be the guy.
although it tried that and it's really hard to do

Anyone else here love C?
Not C++, what a horrible language.
C.
Lovely lovely C.

[Edgecrusher]

C is nice and all, but Java has to be my favorite thing to program in.

[Panda]

Multimedia fusion! Oh, wait, this is a thread for intellectual programmers, not amateurs... >_>

I would love a religious debate, but I think it's against forum rules... and it's impossible to debate on religion's side anyway. (and all religious debates on the internet inevitably turn to "Raptor Jesus saves when he shops at Walmart")

[Chron]

Actually, I'm in a Perl/ColdFusion class at the moment. Scripting languages are fun, so if you want to talk about that, all the better.

It's too bad about the whole religion thing... but then I have other places to debate that.

C is nice and all, but Java has to be my favorite thing to program in.

Java is my favorite Object-Oriented language. It's nice, smooth, and gets the job done.
The reason I like C so much is because it's compiled into machine code (Java runs at least 10x slower than C due to the fact that it's interpreted as bytecode), and it's just so close to the machine you're using.
Lots of cheap little tricks, although the overall complexity rises.

However, if I want to do something straight-forward or with a GUI, I use Java.

[Vinchenz Rock]

I like to program in Ruby.

"Ruby? What the heck?" "What's Ruby?" "Pfft, Ruby." "Pokemon Ruby was ok." [/one of mikero's post]

I'm probably going to learn C++ when I'm in college. It's pretty manditory last I checked for vidja gaems.

[Chron]

Not quite completely, but mostly. It won't matter since I know C++ anyway.

Ruby is very nice, though. It's simple, clean, clear, and great for beginners.
Slow.
But very easy to write.

[Mikero]

This is such a broad thread. The whole board is for discussion. I think each topic should have it's own thread or this is just going to get messy and ridiculous. It throws the structure of a forum out the window by pooling everything into one long crazy thread.

"Ruby? What the heck?" "What's Ruby?" "Pfft, Ruby." "Pokemon Ruby was ok." [/one of mikero's post]

Uhm no, I don't think so. How about we leave being me to me, thanks.

[Winged Warrior]

Multimedia fusion! Oh, wait, this is a thread for intellectual programmers, not amateurs... >_>

I would love a religious debate, but I think it's against forum rules... and it's impossible to debate on religion's side anyway. (and all religious debates on the internet inevitably turn to "Raptor Jesus saves when he shops at Walmart")

If your up for a debate, I'd be more than happy to argue with you over AIM.

Even if it isn't against the rules, a religious debate on a board attracts alot of negitive ju-ju and gets alot of people angry.

There have been several simi-popular boards crash due to lames and hackings resulting from one "relious beleif thread."

[AlexThePenguin]

I've seen it work, and very well at that, but this is more of a broad-topic board, and more toes are likely to get stepped on.

If people actually used a religious discussion board for its proper use (i.e. supporting statements, asking questions, not bashing), then it could work out well. I won't push the issue, though, as a religious board doesn't really fit the aspects of the board anyway.

[ASR]

So, does discussing bread in The Bread Thread count as an intellectual topic?

[Chron]

Discussing discussing the bread in the bread thread is certainly an intellectual endeavor, so have at it and what ho, young man!

[Voulnet]

I love Java, especially when you use eclipse to write the code. That program just spoils you. I'm also a fan (kind of) of assembly. I may study it in detail later because I could go into the aviation field. Ada would be a good fit for such field, too.
Currently I'm taking Computer Organization, E-Learning, Software Engineering(2) and Operating System courses, I hope I enjoy it.

[Chron]

Eclipse is like the best environment ever.
Although it has its fair share of problems.

What architecture do you want to learn assembly for? x86 is most useful.

AND LAST.
Ada is being used much less these days, but it's handy to know how to read and write it, I guess.
Lots of legacy Ada programs in the military.

Your schedule is a little like mine was last semester, Voully.

But currently:
Internet Programming (easy, Perl/CF), Computer Networks (difficult, C/Java, network protocols, etc), Analysis of Algorithms (boring, but easy), Math/Stats (math boring) and a Game Programming elective.

And then I'm done, and I get my shiny degree.
Then I go attempt to work for Valve.

[Speed Racer]

If people actually used a religious discussion board for its proper use (i.e. supporting statements, asking questions, not bashing), then it could work out well. I won't push the issue, though, as a religious board doesn't really fit the aspects of the board anyway.

Screw that. It might start out nice, but such a thing would only get worse as it dragged on due to stupid fanboys.

[Mikero]

I've had enough religious debates to know that they rarely go anywhere or help anything. I prefer to keep my ##### solemn and dignified.

[AlexThePenguin]

I've experienced a well-working religious topic board first-hand.

You need a certain level of common maturity for it, though.

[Mikero]

So have I, but it was pretty much pointless.

[Edgecrusher]

Nevermind that religious discussion is clearly against the rules here; and for good reason.

I don't care what you believe, and you shouldn't care what I believe.

[ChaosVortex]

That's what you believe huh? Interesting.

[Mikero]

I don't care what you believe, and you shouldn't care what I believe.

For real.

[AlexThePenguin]

Fractals.

They're a highlight of my existence.

Mandelbrot sets are my favourite.

Take a point called Z
On the complex plane
Make z1 be z²+C
And z2 is z1²+C
And z3 is z2²+C
And so on
If the series of Zs should always stay
Close to Z and never trend away
That point is in the Mandelbrot Set


_{Though, I actually find Sierpinski Gaskets to be pretty awesome, too.}

[Vinchenz Rock]

I don't care what you believe, and you shouldn't care what I believe.

Agreed.

[Voulnet]

Eclipse is like the best environment ever.
Although it has its fair share of problems.

What architecture do you want to learn assembly for? x86 is most useful.

AND LAST.
Ada is being used much less these days, but it's handy to know how to read and write it, I guess.
Lots of legacy Ada programs in the military.

Your schedule is a little like mine was last semester, Voully.

But currently:
Internet Programming (easy, Perl/CF), Computer Networks (difficult, C/Java, network protocols, etc), Analysis of Algorithms (boring, but easy), Math/Stats (math boring) and a Game Programming elective.

And then I'm done, and I get my shiny degree.
Then I go attempt to work for Valve.

Yup, x86, that's the one.
As for the courses, I have finished all Math courses, as well as the Algorithms.
I still have three Electric Engineering courses, Engineering Economy, Thermodynamics(yikes!) and the rest of the Computer Engineering courses (my major).
I'm also going to enroll in a CISCO Network course this semester.
I still have a year and a half left, ugh.

[Chron]

Ah, Voulnet likes it more physical, that he does.
Good luck with the Engineering stuff!

Although about the algorithms class, I'm not sure why you'd need to understand complexity theory. Then again it might be a class that teaches you algorithms, I have no idea.

[Voulnet]

Thanks, I need all the luck I can get.
The complexity theory becomes useful when you need to develop flexible, efficient or 'light' software.
The idea is to be able to tell which algorithm is easier for the computer to run.
Is this the complexity theory you're talking about?

[Chron]

I know all of that crap.

I just don't understand why a computer engineer needs to know it.
(but then I think you guys use your magical powers to fuse circuits and make logic gates in the heavens)

[Voulnet]

Computer Engineering isn't just about circuits and logic gates, honey.
We do more than enough programming, so we DO need to know how to do it efficiently.

[Chron]

Eh, I guess it's all pretty close together at the Bachelor level anyway.

I was expecting different majors to have more...
... you know, differences.

[Mikero]

You'd think all this engineering and programming and math talk would make me think "Oh man, I'm so glad I'm in animation 'cause it's just drawing not all this hard #####!"

But no. Noooooooo no. That couldn't be further from the truth. Nope.

[Chron]

The man speaks the truth.
I was an art major for a year.

Then I quit because I wanted to do something easier, so I chose computer science.

[Mikero]

My program has the heaviest work load of my entire college, apparently.

And they still make us do gen eds (which effectively dicked me over for the weekend and my animation).

[Voulnet]

Eh, I guess it's all pretty close together at the Bachelor level anyway.

I was expecting different majors to have more...
... you know, differences.

They are different, but they still need the basics. Programming efficiently is definitely a basic skill.
By the way, Chron. How many years do you have left till graduation? Is it a 5 year degree?

[ASR]

This thread hurts my brain...

[Chron]

Eh, I guess it's all pretty close together at the Bachelor level anyway.

I was expecting different majors to have more...
... you know, differences.

They are different, but they still need the basics. Programming efficiently is definitely a basic skill.
By the way, Chron. How many years do you have left till graduation? Is it a 5 year degree?

No such thing as a five year degree here, to my knowledge.

I have 0.25 years left, which is to say I graduate this semester. Around May.
AoA does nothing to teach you how to program efficiently. That's basic level stuff.

It is more about knowing how to check your own algorithms for speed and correctness (to see if it's really better than something else).

Really... what sort of job do you want?
I think I'm more confused about the end result of your degree than anything else.

[Voulnet]

It's not confusing, really. Computer Engineering is a very broad profession, I'll work as a Computer Engineer but what I will do depends on where I work.

[Chron]

Yes, but there has to be some difference between the pool of available jobs for our majors.

That's what I'm getting at.
I mean, you obviously have engineering skills I lack.

I have some theory skills you lack.

but where do these things factor in

[Xero]

I feel I should go back to college for Computer Science.  There aren't any jobs out now for CIS.

[Chron]

Brush up on your math and such, and you'll be fine.

With a degree in CIS you probably just lack a few courses to pick up CS anyway.

[Speed Racer]

Computer Engineering isn't just about circuits and logic gates, honey.
We do more than enough programming, so we DO need to know how to do it efficiently.

Computer engineers from Kuwait DO IT with efficiency!

[Voulnet]

We do our women efficiently. Nothing is lost or unused.

[AlexThePenguin]

We do our women efficiently. Nothing is lost or unused.

Scientifically, that's impossible unless you produce one single sperm.

[Edgecrusher]

It's not lost, we know EXACTLY where it is.

[AlexThePenguin]

He said, "... Or unused."

[ASR]

They're remote-controlled. They're just not used... yet.

[AlexThePenguin]

An egg only attaches to one sperm. A sperm is a tool for fertilizing an egg. If fertilization does not occur, it is unused.

[Edgecrusher]

But the sheer number serves a function in and of itself, so even if only one succeeds, they all serve to increase probability.

[ASR]

Hehe, he's got you there!

Also, every sperm cell comes with an individual remote control button that we can use to detonate the cell, resulting in a massive explosion.

[Winged Warrior]

Efforts were made to make one great big cell back in the eighties.


All results proved... Painful.

the alternative is better