Zero Complete Work Discussion

[Ben]

Most Repliroids seem desire a peaceful coexistence with humans. Racism is no subject in the Rockman universe until ZERO. OCW however notes that in earlier stages, when a Repliroid is drawn into a situation that requires him/her to choose between two sides, it may cause pain that will eventually lead to insanity and therefore becoming an Irregular.

And who says they're slaves? Most work is done by Mechaniroids like Metools and other robots, but not Repliroids. Then again, there is work that can only done by Repliroids. The space development for example required the use of New Generation Repliroids and humans themselves are too weak and vulnerable to effectively fight Irregulars on their own.

There might not have been an actual law that grants Repliroids the exact same rights and equality of humans until Rockman ZX, but they're not considered slaves or mere workers. That's what Mechaniroids are for. You want Repliroid slaves? Then you might consider moving to Neo Arcadia.

If laws were equal between the two then none of this maverick bull##### would have happened....this of course not factoring in the virus.

Huh? There were always Repliroids that were considered Irregulars but neither suffered from Viral Infection, system malfunction or wanted independence from humanity. Take Cedar and Aluce from X7 for example. They're just after money, regular, Repliroid gangsters.

[Xero]

I mean this:

A reploid is built and are given a set task.  If they cannot perform that task then they are terminated regardless.

Reploids should be able to have no set task and allow them to do what they want. 

Also instead of terminating a reploid they should go through the same judicial systems humans go through.

[Ben]

A reploid is built and are given a set task.  If they cannot perform that task then they are terminated regardless.

This is how Neo Arcadia handles the situation, that's not the general idea. Repliroids are not created solely to do some work humans are to lazy to do themselves. A Repliroid is considered Irregular and handled accordingly if he violates the law, attacks humans etc.

Just saying "No, I'm not doing this. Do it yourself." is not really an Irregular statement, except you're Copy-X but he blames Repliroids as Irregulars for such nullities in order to save energy that said Repliroid would consume instead of saving it for the humans Copy-X was made to protect.

Reploids should be able to have no set task and allow them to do what they want.

That's what's mostly done. Then again, there have been exceptions, like the Repliforce for example.

[Xero]

Well humans should stop being lazy and help out with the work.

[Ben]

Well humans should stop being lazy and help out with the work.

Blame Copy-X.

He was made by Ciel with the objective to "protect the citizens of Neo Arcadia from Irregulars". Since Repliroids are potential Irregulars, they're constantly kept in check in order to supress the mildest revolt that might endanger the citizens, which, to him, are the humans. Neo Arcadia is supposed to be an utopia for the survivors of the great wars, the Irregular and the Elf War.

Copy-X, who's a perfect physical double of X and believes to be X himself, thinks that he must act accordingly and therefore must protect humans from Irregulars, as they can't fight back themselves. Therefore, the smallest mistake or refusal might indicate Irregularity, hence Repliroids are terminated. Since Copy-X lacks X' experience and maturity, he doesn't handle the situation as X would do it, or rather, he acts accordingly to what he THINKS that X would do, with a priority on humans instead of a peaceful coexistence for both races.

The result is obvious. Repliroids in Neo Arcadia lead the lives of an inferior citizen class that are abused by the system and humans as tools.

[Xero]

I'm not talking about the Zero series.

I'm talking about the X series.

If you played X4 Sigma pretty much says that "The maverick hunters sole mission is to destroy the reploids who do as the humans order."

That pretty much means that if the reploid cannot do as commanded it will be destroyed without question.

[TheRedPriest]

:: shakes head ::

Why do you people even BOTHER to discuss this drivel?  Cyber elfs?  Cyber World?  This is one word from some idiot to being connected to Battle Network.

[Ben]

If you played X4 Sigma pretty much says that "The maverick hunters sole mission is to destroy the reploids who do as the humans order."

That pretty much means that if the reploid cannot do as commanded it will be destroyed without question.

That's what Sigma said in order to confuse General in regard of the events he [Sigma] had already planned out.

Repliforce was deemed Irregular because they declared independence from the humans after being blamed for being responsible for the fall of Sky Lagoon by Eregion. Sigma took advantage of the Repliforce's pride as soldiers. They would never lay down their weapons when told to.

Although General openly declared that their independence was neither "about insurrection nor rebellion against their human creators", but about their "liberty and security", taking care of their own individual lives and their own survival, the human goverment thought of them as a very dangerous and heavily armed military organization that had to be taken out.

Surely this conflict might have been solved peacefully, but Sigma knew what he was doing. When it was found out later that Sigma was the one who orchestrated all this, the responsible Hunter General resigned from his position and made space for Signas.

Why do you people even BOTHER to discuss this drivel?  Cyber elfs?  Cyber World?  This is one word from some idiot to being connected to Battle Network.

If you're not interested in this discussion, why are you reading this thread in the first place? You don't like Rockman ZERO? Don't meddle in the threads. Take your hatred elsewhere.

[TheRedPriest]

That was a general statement, though relevant to THIS discussion as well.  It relates to the anal raping MMZ has done to the X series, so discussing how awful it is, is actually quite relivant.  MMZ has a good deal of hate for it.  Get used to it.

[Ben]

I thought this thread was supposed to discuss the series and it's story, and not to create some hate triads and say how awful it is etc.

Speaking personally, this is my favorite series aside Rockman X and, although I share some negative aspects regarding RZ with you, I don't think it's THAT bad that it deserves such treatment.

[TheRedPriest]

It's probably not.  But it's no X series.

And any discussion of the series and/or story (any series really) WILL include negatives and reasons to hate.  You don't just sing and dance in the flowers and circle jerk over how good it is.  Go to MMN if you want to do that.

[Xero]

...

*Facepalms*

Rez is gonna chew your ass.

[Aresian]

Well, I think you're finally starting to see the light. MMM is a place of serious debate with many different kinds of thoughts and feelings, clashed together. Not so much as it was back then, but it still contains that flavor.

Ben, if you can stick it through, you will have lots of interesting experiences here. If not... well, you'll get swallowed up by the more dedicated and dare I say, stubborn fans.

I'm glad I helped respark the subject with my blantant posts, even if my main goal was to ##### with Rez.

I love #####ing with Rez.

[Ben]

It's probably not.  But it's no X series.

Obviously not. Afterall, this series is about Zero, as the name indicates =P

And any discussion of the series and/or story (any series really) WILL include negatives and reasons to hate.  You don't just sing and dance in the flowers and circle jerk over how good it is.  Got MMN if you want to do that.

That may be true, but to some degree, we should try to maintain a neutral attitude towards it. Just throwing around curse words is nothing but spam. As for TMMN, I rarely go there, I already have my hands full with the chaos on RPM, although I don't moderate the forums anymore.

...

*Facepalms*

Rez is gonna chew your ass.

And this is the tone a mod should talk to a regular member? Oh yes Xero, you're doing a good job...

[Xero]

I'm just stating the facts.

Rez is like that with everyone so don't let it get to you.

And how can we maintain a neutral attitude when we really hate the series.  In my opinion the series was done quite horribly. 

[TheRedPriest]

Sorry Aresian, I don't swing that way.

And yes, the reason Matrix, and it's family were always the best places were because we do debate and do challange people.  Being a Mega Man fan DOESN'T mean you sugar coat every game that comes out and beg for more.  It means there is a LOT of dissatisfaction and displeasure in the fandom.  It's a passionate fandom.

And the staff here is very hands on.  We don't sit on a pedistle looking down.  We get down and dirty and in your face.  And we're good enough at what we do that we can do it without "ZOMG ABUSE POWER".  I don't have to ban someone to win an argument.  If I start some ##### I don't ban someone for finishing it.  None of us do.  So don't worry about that.

AND STOP POSTING SO DAMN FAST...

You don't talk about something with a "neutral" attitude and expect to have a good discussion.

[Ben]

Being a Mega Man fan DOESN'T mean you sugar coat every game that comes out and beg for more.  It means there is a LOT of dissatisfaction and displeasure in the fandom.  It's a passionate fandom.

I'm not saying that the ZERO series was so awesome that I'd want to canonize Inafune and Inti Creates for creating it. But as far as I can tell, there's nothing what really would make me state a negative thing about the series either. Those were, to me, solid games with a good story, awesome music and fair difficulty level.

And the staff here is very hands on.  We don't sit on a pedistle looking down.

I quite hope so.

AND STOP POSTING SO DAMN FAST...

Learn to type faster =P

You don't talk about something with a "neutral" attitude and expect to have a good discussion.

I'm aware of that, by neutral I meant starting a discussion and focussing solely on flaming the series, but perhaps I didn't word it out good enough.

[Aresian]

Sorry Aresian, I don't swing that way.

Aww.

No really though, you don't have to be so formal, Rez. It IS me after all, good ol' Ares/Wild Eagle. ^_-

Never the less, yes... that's Matrix's charm. It's why I've praised the place ever so much over the years. The staff are, in essence... like regular members. Why shouldn't they treat everyone as they treat themselves and vice versa? When it isn't a matter of Board and Site Security, regular communication should be the norm. It's what seperates machines from people, they have their own personalities and ways of thinking.

Just the same, you should be able to speak openly about your thoughts and feelings aswell, while still maintaining some form of respect. I believe that is the most common sensical way of thinking, honestly.

[Xero]

Well if the Zero Series was done better than perhaps it wouldn't recieve as much hate as it does.

Alot could have been improved to the series.  They should have got rid of cyber elves all togheter and allowed the player to collect life ups and stuff like in the X games.

As for ranking it should have been done where you could retry the level again and increase your rank for the level thereby increasing your overall rank.  None of this one shot deal #####. 

And the stage design didn't help matters.  If you like spikes and dying every 5 minutes.  This game is for you.  But we prefer a game with a good difficulty that makes the game fun and challenging at the same time.

[Ben]

They should have got rid of cyber elves all togheter and allowed the player to collect life ups and stuff like in the X games.

Rockman ZERO was supposed to be different from Rockman X, not just a clone of it, that's why Cyberelves were included.

And the stage design didn't help matters.  If you like spikes and dying every 5 minutes.

That sounds more like ZERO1 than the rest of the series. I never experienced any such frustrating moments while playing the games.

[Xero]

Cyber Elves were still pointless.

First off you have to get them then feed them an insane amount of crystals to actually use them, and you can't even use them since it lowers your rank to F (I'm exaggerating here) forcing you to try the level without them only to die anyway.

[TheRedPriest]

Cyber Elfs, in concept and in gameplay, were utter failures.  And frankly, there was no reason to make Zero play any different than he did in the X series.  That's HOW he played.  Failure from the start was forcing a change in gameplay when one was not needed.

[Mikero]

I never used Cyberelves. Two reasons;

A) They were ridiculously useless.
B) I cheated at MMZ, because I couldn't stand to go through them otherwise and because Cyberelves were useless. Even then, I only went through the first 3. Garbage, by the way, all three.

[KPL]

Because Dr.Cain is an ass.

"Oh!  I have a great idea!  Let's use X's design to create reploids that can think and reason on their own and put them to work like slaves since they are robots!  I'm sure nothing can go wrong with that!"

Weren't they working, being part of society?

[Xero]

Being part of society and being slave driven are 2 different things.

[KPL]

Correct.

So. Were they slaves or ordinary workers?

*looks*

Oh yea, it's the Zero series.. Never mind. Slaves it is.

[Mournson]

That's Xero's point. you my friend stated the obvious, which actually made me laugh my ass off. on the other hand, you guys are so angry about this messing up the story line, it's making me want to buy a copy, so please, carry on.

[HyperEpsilon]

I've been out of the loop with MMZ after the first game, besides the occasional plot summary, so what parts of it, plot-wise, are wallbanging worthy?

It's the steroids.

And crack cocaine!

Because Dr.Cain is an ass.

"Oh!  I have a great idea!  Let's use X's design to create reploids that can think and reason on their own and put them to work like slaves since they are robots!  I'm sure nothing can go wrong with that!"

More like an idiot. Wasn't he supposed to be an archaeologist or a botanist or something?

[TheRedPriest]

I've been out of the loop with MMZ after the first game, besides the occasional plot summary, so what parts of it, plot-wise, are wallbanging worthy?

MMZ in it's ENTIERETY is VonKarma wall banging worthy.  Though the Cyber Elfs and Elf Wars would be to tier if you want to pick out specifics.

[HyperEpsilon]

Ah, yes, those parts.

I myself didn't find them to be bad... but then again, I like most things.

... Except for the bit about the three generals dying anticlimatically.

[preventerWIND]

Actually they did die in a pretty epic way. It was just the discussion whether they died or not that wasn't cool.

SRSLY CAPCOM. NOT COOL.

[Ben]

SRSLY CAPCOM. NOT COOL.

You realize that the ZERO series was made by Inti Creates and not by CAPCOM, don't you?

[preventerWIND]

No, 'cause I never noticed the Inticreates logo in the MMZ games. Ever.

It's Capcoms fault for even associating with Inti, I feel they could have done much better without ideas from Inticreates, a lot of the designs and plots lacked a lot.

Posted on:  4 January 2008, 05:11:26

BREAKIN' NEWS THAT NOBODY CARES 'BOUT!

Apparently it's being printed out, it should be released by late March/early April.

[Someguy]

And then once it's late March/early April we'll get another year long delay. This is MMM I doubt anyone here cares about that book

[preventerWIND]

BREAKIN' NEWS THAT NOBODY CARES 'BOUT!

DURR!

and you shouldn't talk, you said you'd make more MTZ but what do we get? More promises of MM gold turned into crap! >: (

[Someguy]

BREAKIN' NEWS THAT NOBODY CARES 'BOUT!

Whoa, I read that as BREAKING NEWS...Meh

and you shouldn't talk, you said you'd make more MTZ but what do we get? More promises of MM gold turned into crap! >: (

...Meh, I'm working on it

[Rama Olendris]

Well, after all those frustrating delays, the works is now available for pre-order (again) from Amazon.com. Let's hope that this time, there won't be anymore problems.

[NovaMan XP]

It's coming out next week I think. Right?

[Mikero]

People actually want this?

[NovaMan XP]

Apparently...

[ASR]

I'd be down if it were for X or Classic or Legends.

[ChaosVortex]

To be honest, I want this too, but I don't want to buy it.

Classic, X, and Legends would be worth the cash.

[SB]

So... Either everyone bought all the 10 copies out of existence, or I'm guessing the entire fandom did mass genocide after reading it, hence there's no real discussions about it on the net...?

Or did they just delay the book for the billionth time to make the cover extra shiny for all it's worthless splendor?

[NovaMan XP]

I guess everyone who bought one had theirs randomly explode. Or it got delayed.

[Fatso]

I think the main issue here is people buying them at all.

[SB]

Well... Isn't Udon, people doing this book, supposed to be handling the new R20 releases as well?

I'm curious as to how AWESOME their quality is on this project, and it seems to be so great, a time paradox has happened at their warehouse on all the copies that don't seem to exist...

[TheRedPriest]

Well... Isn't Udon, people doing this book, supposed to be handling the new R20 releases as well?

I'm curious as to how AWESOME their quality is on this project, and it seems to be so great, a time paradox has happened at their warehouse on all the copies that don't seem to exist...

No one is talking about it because half the X fans hate MMZ, and the other half already talked about anything that mattered when it came out in japan and the other half don't care either way and the other half are confused because they can't find Geo in it.

[Rama Olendris]

No one is talking about because it IS MMZ.

The book is only up for pre-order. It's not for sale yet just for the pre-order for when it does eventually come out. I know this because I had Amazon.com alert me if/when it was available.

I want this item because of the artwork mostly and I did enjoy some parts of the series, most of it was crap, but I am fond of some things.

Oh shaddap, you know at least 60% of the people here WILL get it at one point. You all have apparently played ZX or Ryuusei. 

[TheRedPriest]

I could have bought both the import and domestic release of it LAST week.  It's out in America.  But why would I waste money on a book full of art I hate that goes into unnecessary detail about a plot that rapes one I like and is generally diarrhea inducing to putrid flesh crawling in quality on it's own?

I wouldn't, and so too goes most all the people here who don't like MMZ.  That's why I sincerely DOUBT 60% of the people here are going to buy it.

I wouldn't even buy it to show support for one of the books I DO want.

[Rama Olendris]

It's a matter of personal opinion, and I did like the art a lot. As for the plot raping, I couldn't agree with you more.

I'm looking more forward to the Classic and X books myself.